Cycling UK Forum

PH wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 6:20pm

Sweep wrote: ↑3 Aug 2022, 5:36pm [any, er, holes, in the Sea to Summit warranty?

Hopefully I'll never be in a position to be able to answer that. They made quite a big thing about it when they changed construction, so they must be pretty confident and would look pretty foolish if they didn't back it up. As with most warranties it only covers defective materials and manufacture, but delamination, which is the only failure you regularly hear about, ought to be covered by that.

>>As with most warranties it only covers defective materials and manufacture,

mm - I think I'll have to take a closer look at that guarantee.

well I did:

and found this:

"This warranty also excludes normal wear and tear and material breakdown due to age, use, or environmental conditions."

mm - so "use" is a cop-out.
ditto "wear"
material breakdown due to age?
they mean like in a lifetime?

wonder what they mean by "environmental conditions"?
we tend to get a lot of those, had some lately.
Am sure they are nice mats but I won't be putting any faith in that "lifetime guarantee".

I'll be putting more faith in my bum's lifetime guarantee.

I've never had to deal with either a StS or Exped, or for that matter Thermarest, guarantee claim, but I expect they all contain similar wording. What counts is not so much the wording but the attitude of the people you deal with – both the manufacturer and retailer. My only relevant experience here is with Alpkit, who were very good at refunding me the price of a headtorch that broke just inside the guarantee period, and slightly less relevantly, SJS, who were firm about the 12-month limit on a component that broke at 18 months.

Sweep is probably right in that the guarantees aren't worth the paper they are printed on; however, we mostly rely on goodwill and reputation to get the item replaced. This seems to work pretty well. I would prefer not to rely on a guarantee but on a product that was robust and predictable in its performance (which it appears these mats are not). Having to and being able to repair leaks for instance is absolutely fine (after all we expect to do that with inner tubes): not being able to deal with delamination at all is not, guarantee or not.

However, I've been persuaded by many of the reports on here and elsewhere that:

1. Things might have improved and the manufacturers are learning from past errors.
2. Some mats do actually last well.
3. Replacement is OK if you are prepared for it (e.g. by keeping the receipt and other details handy).
4. A lifetime guarantee (as PH says) is not to be sniffed at, not becasue it is a guarantee but because the maker feels confident enough to offer one.

So the Thermarest Pro is on my Xmas list.

I've had an Exped Synmat UL since 2012 and have been using it for several weeks a year since I got it, with no issues. So they can last! I do use it with the chair kit option, which provides an extra cover (so more protection), but does put extra strain on it (because you bend the mat to turn it into a chair). They are not cheap, but I find mine comfortable for both sleeping and sitting, I think on the whole I've had good value for money. Although there are a lot more options these days, I'd certainly consider getting another.

Our exped synmat ul7 mats, three bought at the same time, have all gone in the bin. Not through failure but through a puppy weeing on them. Can't wash that off so easily!

They worked well for a few years up to that point. However they were very noisy like rustling crisp packets.

Two now use a thermoset and alpkit clone I am using a sea to summit with the cell type structure not the tubes. It's a light as the old expeds but the fabric feels more durable and less noisy. Not too far off the alpkit self inflating mat fabric on feel just a lot lighter.

Self inflating mat. That's a marketing term that doesn't match what you get. I've never used one without needing more than a few puffs of blown in air to be useable. You really do need to inflate them yourself IME.

I think it was a small uk rucksack manufacturer who said to me that small brands make products that rarely fail because they can't afford to replace both due to cost/profit margins and reputational damage. They said that larger companies do not have those issues due to economies of scale but simply factor in a certain failure rate for replacement. Your rucksack might not fall but you've still paid a little for all those that did.

I suspect the larger mat brands operate along similar lines as lqrher rucksack brands.

My two year old Sea to Summit Etherlight developed a slow leak last month which turned out to be a tear at one of the spot welds. I sent it back, they replaced it. I had high hopes for the Chesterfield sofa style rather than straight line baffles, but I guess it brought home how difficult it would be to do a lasting repair in any of the puckers.

I took the plunge and bought a Thermarest Prolite for an eye watering amount. Lying on it as I type I’m very pleased indeed and hope the guarantee lives up to its lifetime claims.

My most reliable inflatable mat (by which I mean cylindrical chamber mat, not the thinner self inflating old style thermarest type mats) so far has been a £15 lidl job. No insulation in the chambers though.

in4time wrote: ↑29 Aug 2022, 10:38pm I took the plunge and bought a Thermarest Prolite for an eye watering amount. Lying on it as I type I’m very pleased indeed and hope the guarantee lives up to its lifetime claims.

No comment on T-Rest or your particular mat (we've been happily using NeoAirs for over a decade and my original T-Rest, still fine despite being a "second" and with a couple of patches, dates back to '91) but something to note about a "lifetime guarantee".

This almost always means your item will be repaired or replaced if it fails due to material or manufacturing fault in the useful lifetime of the product. This isn't a bad thing by any means, but not necessarily the same as some people think it means.

Pete.

in4time wrote: ↑29 Aug 2022, 10:38pm I took the plunge and bought a Thermarest Prolite for an eye watering amount. Lying on it as I type I’m very pleased indeed and hope the guarantee lives up to its lifetime claims.

I've had two fail.
One developed a leak by the base of the (metal) valve after a long and useful life.
The other delaminated when I did what you should never do; left it fully inflated in a tent, with the valve closed, on a hot and sunny day. Even worse, it was folded up in a chair kit, which bumps the pressure up a bit extra. I knew I should leave the valve open; I just forgot.

Another comment is that they make them lighter partly by punching holes in the foam interior, and the more holes there are, the less warm they are, or that's what a sample of 3 leads me to believe.