Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

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RayK
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Joined: 26 May 2021, 9:19pm

Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by RayK »

Hello all, hope you are all well. I've decided to buy a mountain bike (nothing special) to get me out the house and improve health. It's not for serious cycling, just pleasure (woodland cycling, day trips out etc). I'm wondering if anyone knows of an app that caters for off road cycling, specifically finding routes that avoids roads and will act like a satnav?

I've tried the cycling option on Google maps for a route I'm aware of, but it selected mostly roads rather than the Sankey Valley trail which covers most of the route (and I think is a well known cycle route).

The reason I'm asking is that on a recent trip - mostly on a cycle lane running along an A road - I had so many near misses from cars going past that I just turned back home. I want to point out there was nothing I was doing wrong. I was well visible, cycling competently, safely and with courtesy. But some people were driving well within the clearly marked cycle lane. In some cases, cars were passing withing a couple of centimeters of me, despite me being right next to the kerb and we'll away from the outer edge of the cycle lane.

I'm a fairly confident person, but this really shook me up and there's no way I'm now going to use a route that is shared by cars if I can help it. (I don't want to start a "car drivers v cyclists" row btw. It's inconsiderate people that are the problem regardless of the form of transport).

Sorry for that bit of a rant!

Does anyone know of apps out there or have tips/ideas for off road cycling? If it helps I live in the WN5 postcode area. Thanks in advance.
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Traction_man
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Location: Bangor NI

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by Traction_man »

If it's bridleways and green lanes you're after I'd recommend getting a good old Ordnance Survey map, 1:25000 scale, and just plot out some interesting routes. Take the map out with you on the ride and annotate it as you explore your planned routes. If it's an app you prefer, then the OS is available for a reasonable subscription service and shows your location used on a smart phone.

All the best,

Keith
Lookrider
Posts: 147
Joined: 1 Aug 2019, 6:10pm

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by Lookrider »

Cyclestreets
Is easy to use for us not so techno
Just touch the screen each place you want to pass and it will plot the route
It's not GPS in that it will tell you turn by turn ...but you can press location button and it shows where you are in the map
Be sure to select QIET journey in settings and it will put you on cycle trax where possible
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by Psamathe »

I've little experience of off-road cycling but from a route creation (app/online) perspective I'd expect a major problem would be the underlying data about the suitability and access to any path. Roads are somewhat easier to grade but off-road wise I'd expect ask two cyclists to grade a route and certify legal access and you'd get 3 different answers.

With regard to route on roads, there certainly are some horrendous cycle routing systems out there as well as some excellent ones. I have inadvertently found a "test route" (60 miles) and some "cycle route creation" systems give you a route one can only describe as "certain death" (would anybody cycle along the A14 past Ipswich? - because some cycle rout planners think that is a good route on a bike! When touring I use https://cycle.travel and it has always provided me cycle friendly routes (it cannot guarantee you wont come across some knuckle dragger but best available cycle routes).

In terms of apps "where am I" best apps probably depend on what type of smartphone you have. I only know iPhone on whichhttps://mapout.app is probably the best (only iPhone/iPad). It has by far the clearest map rendering, includes overlays for cycle paths, etc. (but these are formal cycle routes NOT every off-road track available). You can manually draw a track but it does not do turn bu turn navigation, closest to navigation is to display may with pre-drawn/pre-imported route and your own actual track. It is very strong on displaying altitude profiles - either as a straight line section across two points you select or altitude profile of a route or track.

Ian
Lookrider
Posts: 147
Joined: 1 Aug 2019, 6:10pm

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by Lookrider »

Cyclesteets
Will not route you on footpaths
You will however see them on the map
All clearly colour coded
Red footpath
Green bridleway
Blue for tarmac next to rd
As well as the NCN ir sustrams routes highlighted
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by Psamathe »

One thing to remember is that these mapping apps rely on large datasets that have limitations. For example, virtually all will be getting altitude from NASA SRTM data which has "limitations" such as its a regular point altitude grid typically 90m so if you are not right on such a point they interpolate which will introduce errors that in some places can be significant; also only some areas have tree heights and non-terrain features removed so track along a level road from open farmland into a forest and the mapping data will show your altitude jump up by the height of the trees (as SRTM will be measuring the altitude of the top of the trees).

If you remember these constraints and treat such mapping with appropriate caution then I've not found them to be a major issue.

Ian
RayK
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Joined: 26 May 2021, 9:19pm

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by RayK »

Thank you all for your replies, really appreciated.

I've paid for Komoot (and got a refund because it doesn't work). Cycle streets was good, but the lack of turn by turn is a shame (I'd get lost in my own back yard if I had one - traction man, you wouldn't want to trust me using a map to get directions!).

I've come across Bikemap which so far seems promising. It lets you plot points and joins the points up to align along cycle paths, and (I think!) Has turn by turn. Going to be next week before I get to try it but I'm hopeful judging by what I can see so far.

Thanks everyone again, really grateful for everyone's suggestions.
Lookrider
Posts: 147
Joined: 1 Aug 2019, 6:10pm

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by Lookrider »

Theres also the option of buying a used garmin edge GPS specific route mapping
There silly money new but I got one used off gumtree for around 40
After all theres no real moving parts in them so there ok used
I got one specifically for the SANDSTONE WAY 120mile off rd mtb trail
Worked fine for that and the route was downloaded from the sandstone way website so I had no plotting or anything to do ....I guess the newer versions will be more user friendly
A GPS app on tbe phone will drain the battery very fast
Zulu Eleven
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Joined: 26 Oct 2018, 9:25pm

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by Zulu Eleven »

First of all, what does ‘off-road’ mean - it can potentially encompass everything from a tarmac cycle path alongside an A road through to a rocky Bridleway down the side of a mountain in Snowdonia.

Therefore, as above, The issue is one of datasets. There is no single dataset that covers all off-road cycle routes


Strava, Komoot etc are all fundamentally flawed as they operate off ooen source mapping (osm) which has no quality control on its data - so lots of footpaths incorrectly recorded as routes, but also lots of byways incorrectly recorded as roads

As such, the advice above is the best out there - buy an OS map and follow your nose.
Richard Fairhurst
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Joined: 2 Mar 2008, 4:57pm
Location: Charlbury, Oxfordshire

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by Richard Fairhurst »

It's not a fundamental flaw - OSM's quality control, like most open source, is "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow". The issue is exactly that: there aren't yet enough eyeballs on off-road routing with OSM. It'll come with time. Arguably Komoot and Strava could already do a much better job for off-road routing on OSM data, but Komoot's parsing of OSM data in the UK is partial and Strava barely bothers at all.
cycle.travel - maps, journey-planner, route guides and city guides
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LinusR
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Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by LinusR »

RayK wrote: 29 May 2021, 10:01am the Sankey Valley trail which covers most of the route (and I think is a well known cycle route).
Screenshot from 2021-06-15 15-12-20.png
https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/ You can ride on the bridleways and byways public rights of way. Footpaths will have gates and stiles in your way and should not, generally speaking, be cycled along but you can usually do so if you are not crossing private land.
GrahamJ
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Joined: 18 Nov 2020, 8:15am

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by GrahamJ »

Traction_man wrote: 29 May 2021, 7:43pm If it's bridleways and green lanes you're after I'd recommend getting a good old Ordnance Survey map, 1:25000 scale, and just plot out some interesting routes. Take the map out with you on the ride and annotate it as you explore your planned routes. If it's an app you prefer, then the OS is available for a reasonable subscription service and shows your location used on a smart phone.

All the best,

Keith
Yes, Ordnance Survey maps are hard to equal. I print sections of their digital maps onto waterproof paper (Toughprint). Better than 3000x2000 resolution, full colour, easy to read in bright sun, hyper-rugged in the face of rain or dust, no batteries required, does not mind being dropped.
Enigmadick
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Joined: 5 Mar 2016, 11:28am

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by Enigmadick »

Regardless of whatever planning app you choose - or map you use - be prepared to improvise.

On two occasions last week the bridle ways we rode in Dumfries and Galloway were overgrown with nettles, brambles or a wall of gorse, leaving using little alternative other than hoicking the bikes over the wall into the adjacent field.

Not complaining as it's only to be expected in remote countryside - and it was kinda fun overcoming the problems.
Attachments
Just before the gorse - somewhere north of Port Logan
Just before the gorse - somewhere north of Port Logan
ENIGMA DICK aka Richard Barrett
ogg
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 4:43pm

Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by ogg »

I used to use http://www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php a lot - the combined google/openstreetmap with OS maps was very handy
https://komoot.com is generally very good (some inaccuracies down to openstreetmap - though I fix stuff if it's wrong)
Strava is the most likely to send you up a footpath (but fine for road cycling normally)
https://osmaps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/ is good for sketching out a route (though it doesn't 'snap' to roads/bridleways)

What I often do is sketch a route out on OS maps (especially if I want off road stuff) upload it to Komoot so it snaps to bridleways then download to my Wahoo Roam for on the bike navigation - I'd probably have a physical map backup if I was going somewhere truly remote (but there's not much of that in England!)
Sometimes I'll check out junctions/start of bridleways on Google maps / Streetview

I do pay for OS maps, Komoot and Strava - free versions might be lacking some of the functionality.

https://www.plotaroute.com/cyclerouteplanner also good - but a bit techy for it's own good sometimes
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NUKe
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Re: Apps/route planners for off road cycling?

Post by NUKe »

New kid on the Block is komoot
https://www.komoot.com/tour/450007700 one of mine not yet ridden
you can select MTB to give the best off road route
NUKe
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