Electric everything.

[853]

Have you seen the fellow up on Lewis with his kite-based wind generation? https://windswept-and-interesting.co.uk/

I want one of these!

This is what we've been waiting for Cugel... just a shame it's only in development stage. They even have a forum, so you can follow and discus the latest in wind generated power

It's actually on Shetland, but in terms of weather and wind they're pretty similar so it makes no difference - unless you were planning to visit!

[RickH]

Aeromine looks like a potentially interesting development for rooftop wind power generating.

Article here - https://newatlas.com/energy/aeromine-rooftop-wind/

[Biospace]

Have you seen the fellow up on Lewis with his kite-based wind generation? https://windswept-and-interesting.co.uk/

I want one of these!

This is what we've been waiting for Cugel... just a shame it's only in development stage. They even have a forum, so you can follow and discus the latest in wind generated power

It's actually on Shetland, but in terms of weather and wind they're pretty similar so it makes no difference - unless you were planning to visit!

There's a hackaday site with a guide to quite a lot of the construction, umpteen youtube videos also. Christof Beaupoil is worth a look too, on youtube.

[[XAP]Bob]

I liked the look of https://ridgeblade.com

Particularly good for a coastal property facing the prevailing wind, put solar on the pitch, this on the ridge and have a pretty good chance of never needing significant grid import.

[Biospace]

I liked the look of https://ridgeblade.com

Particularly good for a coastal property facing the prevailing wind, put solar on the pitch, this on the ridge and have a pretty good chance of never needing significant grid import.

They've been in the business for well over a decade, yet as with all similar devices have failed to breakthrough into the market. I'd expect any effective domestic rooftop power generation to have booming sales at the moment.

[pwa]

I liked the look of https://ridgeblade.com

Particularly good for a coastal property facing the prevailing wind, put solar on the pitch, this on the ridge and have a pretty good chance of never needing significant grid import.

Either that technology is remarkably quiet, or it is going to annoy you and keep you awake at night. It is on the rigid structure of the roof timbers, immediately above the hollow space of the loft, and any noise it makes will be audible in the bedrooms. Even more so on a summer's evening when the nearby bedroom windows are open. Not one for domestic buildings. For commercial buildings, maybe.

I speak as someone regularly woken by gulls on the guttering early in the morning.

Solar, on the other hand, is wonderfully silent.

[simonineaston]

When I lived on a boat the flippin' geese across from me on the meadow would always start honking and wotnot at dawn, which was OK around Christmas...

[Cugel]

When I lived on a boat the flippin' geese across from me on the meadow would always start honking and wotnot at dawn, which was OK around Christmas...

What did the geese think when you turned on BBC Radio 4 to listen to pointless human chatter? I bet there was a lot of geese-tutting then! I'm surprised they didn't come across the water to make a complaint from their rear ends.

Here in the quiet county of Ceredigion, a flock of gooses often passes overhead in a large V, honking to one another as they go. This sound, waxing then waning as the graceful avians pass overhead on a gradually curving flightpath to who knows where, is a wonderful calming experience.

Anyroadup, I'm surprised you could hear them geese 'round your way over all the human racket, with their car-roaring and yatter. But perhaps those geese have bought megaphones, so they can still hear each other's important honks above the human din?

Cugel, also watching the red kites sail in the thermals.

[briansnail]

Old cars take a lot of energy to scrap. New cars take a lot of energy to make. Heat pumps need new heat cylinders to replace the ones installed with condensation boilers and take ages to recoup the costs.
*************************************************
I ride Brompton and a 100% British Vintage.

[[XAP]Bob]

Old cars take a lot of energy to scrap. New cars take a lot of energy to make. Heat pumps need new heat cylinders to replace the ones installed with condensation boilers and take ages to recoup the costs.

And a new kitchen will never recoup any cost - that's not the only reason to install things.
Sometimes things just need replacing...

Recently had panels and a battery system installed - yes, partly because the current price of electricity is mad, but also because it gives me some power cut cover, and makes the house a little more self sufficient.

I've been looking at heat pumps because my boiler is now close to end of life anyway. It's 18 years old - I installed it when I moved in here (replacing a 20+ year old non-condensing boiler in an inconvenient location), and it's been maintained, but parts are now limited availability so at some point it will simply not be repairable.
That's they key thing here - the boiler needs replacing anyway... so now is the time to change heat source(s) if I can.

I actually measure my CH water flow temperature, and the heat pump engineer calculations said I needed to increase the sizes of a couple of radiators to account for a flow temperature of 50 degrees... I currently run at ~45 degrees

I know (from smart meter data and other monitoring) that my house takes approximately 4.5kWh of gas per day per degree of temperature difference; accounting for the times of day when I run heating (not 24/7) I need about 5kW of heat output when the (average) temperature is five below zero (for context that's slightly lower than the minimum in a cold snap this winter).
That's why I'm not looking at the ZEB or WarmStone products - they're great, but they don't store enough energy for this house in a cold snap, and they don't charge fast enough to take advantage of the cheapest overnight tariffs (besides which I already regularly pull 60A for substantial periods overnight, through a 100A incoming main and fuse). A heat pump doesn't really take advantage of the overnight rate, but it does reduce the amount of energy required substantially, and does so without risking the main fuse.
I could run it at cheap rates overnight to store heat for hot water - my heating demand at that time of night is close to zero anyway, so it's no extra load.

I'll need a new way of storing heat for water (since I currently have a combi boiler), but I'm planning on something like a Sunamp heat battery instead of a conventional hot water tank (less space, more energy efficient, no risk of legionella).

I've got (free from the manufacturer) replacement injectors for the cooker (electric ovens, but gas hob) so that they can be converted to LPG - which would then allow us to disconnect from the gas main entirely whilst retaining the cooker. Not having mains gas at all would be nice - and an additional saving in and of itself.

Will it be cheap to install?
No, it won't. But neither would a new boiler and hot water system - costs like this are part of owning a house.

Will it be cheaper to run?
Well the heating likely wouldn't be - peak electrons are usually ~4 times the price of gas, but I'll be using much less energy. From a ?90% efficiency to ?300% with a heat pump brings that within touching distance. I also have a storage heater (remember them) which would help substantially in one cold room, and off peak electrons are already a fair bit cheaper than gas.
Water heating will be off peak, so substantially cheaper than gas (even if I use resistive heating); indeed in the summer I'm likely to be able to store heat for the water from excess solar for even lower cost (the export rate for solar is bad, but it's not zero).
Heating uses substantially more energy for at least a few weeks of the year, but hot water is in use all year round. I suspect that it would be about even. Hopefully we'll start to decouple electricity prices from gas prices, and then the costs would likely move in my favour, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

What about space?
We'd gain some space where the boiler used to be, and where the gas meter is, but lose some in the back of a deep cupboard for the heat battery. The outside space is unused anyway, and can easily accommodate a heat pump and a couple of LPG bottles for the cooker.

"But what about when there's a power cut"
Well in that case a gas boiler won't work either - though that would, I admit, last substantially longer on a UPS than a heat pump would.

I'm also optimistic that V2H and V2G will become commonplace in the coming years - further improving the situation.

[[XAP]Bob]

They've been in the business for well over a decade, yet as with all similar devices have failed to breakthrough into the market. I'd expect any effective domestic rooftop power generation to have booming sales at the moment.

Not got an installer in this country as far as I can see

Either that technology is remarkably quiet, or it is going to annoy you and keep you awake at night. It is on the rigid structure of the roof timbers, immediately above the hollow space of the loft, and any noise it makes will be audible in the bedrooms. Even more so on a summer's evening when the nearby bedroom windows are open. Not one for domestic buildings. For commercial buildings, maybe.

I speak as someone regularly woken by gulls on the guttering early in the morning.

Solar, on the other hand, is wonderfully silent.

Solar is silent, but it's also both seasonal and diurnal.
Seasonally wind is reasonably negatively correlated with solar, and whilst there is a clear diurnal cycle on the coast, it's not completely dominant.

The noise is a concern - but without the ability to get an accredited partner to come and show us the product... I'll never know.

[Biospace]

They've been in the business for well over a decade, yet as with all similar devices have failed to breakthrough into the market. I'd expect any effective domestic rooftop power generation to have booming sales at the moment.

Not got an installer in this country as far as I can see

I remember this topic going round the renewable energy forum(s) in the early-mid 2000s onwards, with a fairly unambiguous conclusion that if you had enough clear (of trees, other buildings) space around your property to make use of a stand-alone wind genny then a rooftop one could be viable - but then why would you? If there were buildings surrounding to prevent a useful wt in your land then it wouldn't work on your roof, either - unless so high above the ridge as to be impractical.

The whole subject became the butt of jokes as various ideas and designs were proposed and then shown to fail despite, at times, very convincing PR. Very similar designs were around 15 years ago as crop up as 'New' ones today. I know certain technologies have advanced in the intervening years, but the laws of physics don't change so much. As the discussions often ended, even if it did work nobody would stand the NVH for long.

The most promising new ideas I've seen in small scale wind power generation have been along the lines of the kite systems I mentioned above and at the top of this page, primarily because they preclude the need for a tower.

The London building below had the turbines disabled because of the noise and vibration.

https://www.wind-watch.org/news/2022/04 ... rely-move/

[[XAP]Bob]

Wind does really need to be in the right place...

A coastal property facing the prevailing winds is probably about as good as it gets for a domestic property - It's relatively high compared with all the "ground" in front of it, it's facing a pretty healthy average wind speed with consistent direction.
Whilst the slope up isn't perfectly gentle, it's certainly better than the turbulent cliff example.

the laws of physics don't change so much

They don't - but it does depend on what you want out of the system. If you want to generate a massive amount of power then you'll likely be disappointed. If you want to complement a solar array with alternative generation then it (theoretically) can work well in the correct location (and my parents' house is just about the best possible location as described above).

[Biospace]

Wind does really need to be in the right place...

A coastal property facing the prevailing winds is probably about as good as it gets for a domestic property - It's relatively high compared with all the "ground" in front of it, it's facing a pretty healthy average wind speed with consistent direction.
Whilst the slope up isn't perfectly gentle, it's certainly better than the turbulent cliff example.

the laws of physics don't change so much

They don't - but it does depend on what you want out of the system. If you want to generate a massive amount of power then you'll likely be disappointed. If you want to complement a solar array with alternative generation then it (theoretically) can work well in the correct location (and my parents' house is just about the best possible location as described above).

I suppose it comes down to a balance between not wishing to waste free energy where it exists and not using more energy in manufacturing, selling, shipping and installing products than they produce in a given amount of time... perhaps before they need repair and maintenance?

[[XAP]Bob]

Yes - although even if you take pretty pessimistic estimates the generation should far outweigh production/maintenance energy in much less than the product lifetime.

When we get to the point that we're really mineral/energy limited as a species then we will need to look at "best deployment" as well - i.e. put solar panels closer to the equator and focus on higher efficiency turbines.

If I wanted to *really* maximise my self generation and lower my impact then I'd take a ship to Australia and live there :p