Cycling UK Forum

Jdsk wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 3:55pm

biketips666 wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 3:51pm

Jdsk wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 3:42pm
How would average efficiency and electricity costs affect that comparison with the hybrid Yaris, please?

Is the hybrid Yaris MickF's car?

If so, he would be £444.58 a year better off, on 5,500 miles a year (can't remember the exact mileage).

On my mileage, against my current petrol car, I'd be £1355.86 better off. I must investigate these cheap EV charging tarrifs.

Thanks

Jonathan

See, spreadsheets and stuff. Easy peasy information at your fingertips.

Mick F wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 3:49pmThe future is the future, and any ideas that come in the future to make it simple and safe for refuelling the budget family hatch-back up the road at the filling station is there for the taking, but it's not there yet.

There are currently (!) three models of hydrogen powered cars on sale in the UK. Production, not experimental. And all being refuelled, if they're being used.

The problems lie elsewhere.

Jonathan

Isn’t hydrogen a favoured replacement for domestic gas boilers, assuming that retro fitting heat pumps too millions of houses is unlikely? That and electricity.

Might this enable economies of scale?

Jdsk wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 3:59pm

Mick F wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 3:49pmThe future is the future, and any ideas that come in the future to make it simple and safe for refuelling the budget family hatch-back up the road at the filling station is there for the taking, but it's not there yet.

There are currently (!) three models of hydrogen powered cars on sale in the UK. Production, not experimental. And all being refuelled.

Jonathan

Interesting. Must investigate. Though it will need some more columns and rows in my spreadsheet. I might even have to write a little VBA.

As both battery and hydrogen cars are driving an electric motor, it would be nice to think that one day, maybe, there could be some sort of switchable fuel systems:

"Good morning sir, what can I fill your horseless carriage with today"

"I think I'll have some of your finest Hydrogen Jeeves. No damn it, I'm feeling frisky, let's have some of those electrons into the old Lithium"*

Well, maybe not. Though a more "modular" approach might be possible.

*I have no idea how electricity works, really. You can probably tell.

Oldjohnw wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 4:04pm Isn’t hydrogen a favoured replacement for domestic gas boilers, assuming that retro fitting heat pumps too (sic) millions of houses is unlikely? That and electricity.

Might this enable economies of scale?

Yes. Read my post of earlier. Jodie at Vaillant says all their new boilers will be hydrogen ready by next year:

https://www.vaillant.co.uk/for-installe ... /hydrogen/
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-o ... 50000-jobs

It's clearly a medium/long term project. Depending on what you call "medium" and "long". But it's happening.

Oldjohnw wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 4:04pm Isn’t hydrogen a favoured replacement for domestic gas boilers, assuming that retro fitting heat pumps too millions of houses is unlikely? That and electricity.

Might this enable economies of scale?

Yes for boilers, both at 20% mix in natural gas, and at 100%. The former can probably be achieved with non-massive changes to the infrastructure.

But, as above, low pressure hydrogen to houses is a very long way from hydrogen fuel for cars.

Jonathan

(Crossed post)

Jdsk wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 4:09pm

Oldjohnw wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 4:04pm Isn’t hydrogen a favoured replacement for domestic gas boilers, assuming that retro fitting heat pumps too millions of houses is unlikely? That and electricity.

Might this enable economies of scale?

Yes for boilers, both at 20% mix in natural gas, and at 100%. The former can probably be achieved with non-massive changes to the infrastructure.

But, as above, low pressure hydrogen to houses is a very long way from hydrogen fuel for cars.

Jonathan

(Crossed post.)

Small scale electrolysis driven by domestic PV and wind turbines. That's the way forward

I'm sure the neighbours won't mind the gas tanks and the occasional explosion.

Holy Space 1999,

It is not just cars and bikes that run on electrickery, humans do as well.

I, for one, do and rely upon the pacemaker function of my implanted defibrillator to keep ticking.

Yes, our car is a Toyota Yaris Hybrid. 2014 model.
The costs I stated are correct.

Cost of electricity and cost of petrol.

We would save almost zilch.
£40 per year saving if we had an EV compared to our hybrid.

The only way an EV could be favourable, if there was VERY CHEAP electricity.

Colin_P wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 4:15pmIt is not just cars and bikes that run on electrickery, humans do as well.

I, for one, do and rely upon the pacemaker function of my implanted defibrillator to keep ticking.

All of our pacemakers rely on electricity... those that are natural and those that are added later. : - )

I'm out of date on the technology... how often does yours need to be tested and topped-up, please?

Jonathan

Jdsk wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 3:01pm

biketips666 wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 2:37pmBut if the domestic supply eventually becomes pure hydrogen, maybe that's an easy way to recharge H fuel cells.

What's the delivery model for the experiments of pure hydrogen to housing?

I don't know, I'm afraid. I was just conjecturing, really.

The man who came to quote for the new boiler said our gas pressure was 22. What they are I don't know, but we've got 22 of them.

Those will be mbar.

Varies with the tide in the North Sea, of course.

Jonathan

We had a calor gas cooker for some years.
Two cylinders with a changeover valve for when one was empty.

Liquid in there.
Under pressure.
Picking one up, you could hear is sloshing.

Same as my hydrogen cylinders back in my RN days.
Liquid hydrogen.

Mick F wrote: 2 Aug 2021, 4:55pm We had a calor gas cooker for some years.
Two cylinders with a changeover valve for when one was empty.

Liquid in there.
Under pressure.
Picking one up, you could hear is sloshing.

Same as my hydrogen cylinders back in my RN days.
Liquid hydrogen.

Are you suggesting that hydrogen powered cars store the hydrogen as liquid rather than gas?

Thanks

Jonathan

Not suggesting anything.

I'm saying that hydrogen is compressed into cylinders and forms a liquid.
Insufficiently compressed, no doubt it remains a gas.
It's not the hydrogen that's heavy of course, but the container to hold it.

Pick up a full calor gas cylinder and give it a shake. Heavy!
There's liquid in there.