Plymouth

[simonineaston]

The Team are responsible for approximately 17,000 firearm and shotgun certificates, across the County and process in the region of 300 applications per month.

Oh. And that's just one county... Wiltshire in this instance.

[ossie]

The Team are responsible for approximately 17,000 firearm and shotgun certificates, across the County and process in the region of 300 applications per month.

Oh. And that's just one county... Wiltshire in this instance.

Yes. However Devon & Cornwall have also amalgamated their department with Dorset so I simply cannot imagine the workload for these three rural Counties.

[Zulu Eleven]

The Team are responsible for approximately 17,000 firearm and shotgun certificates, across the County and process in the region of 300 applications per month.

Oh. And that's just one county... Wiltshire in this instance.

Perhaps if they spent less time processing forms in order to allow an FAC holder to replace one hollow metal tube with no serial number (moderator) with another identical hollow metal tube with no serial number…. Or written permission to replace one gun with a functionally identical one*, or quibbling over whether .308 was a suitable calibre for muntjac…..or whether you could own both a .17HMR *and* a .22 hornet for Fox control… or for that matter telling you that a piece of woodland that had been stalked for decades was now only suitable for shooting from high seats (unless of course the stalker had an open licence, in which case the land clearance was irrelevant).

I know most shooters would be over the moon if departments spent less time on pointless nonsense like this and more time actually speaking to applicants and their referees periodically.


*Northern Ireland introduced several improvements in their system, such as allowing one-for-one exchanges for weapons in the same band (power) in 2016. Unfortunately GB policing services have stubbornly resisted this

[Psamathe]

The Team are responsible for approximately 17,000 firearm and shotgun certificates, across the County and process in the region of 300 applications per month.

Oh. And that's just one county... Wiltshire in this instance.

Yes. However Devon & Cornwall have also amalgamated their department with Dorset so I simply cannot imagine the workload for these three rural Counties.

Put a 0 (before the decimal point) on the end of the cost of a firearms license. It's not a fundamental human right so charge (even make a profit) on thorough processing of applications.

Ian

[Zulu Eleven]

.
Put a 0 (before the decimal point) on the end of the cost of a firearms license. It's not a fundamental human right so charge (even make a profit) on thorough processing of applications.

Ian

Because everyone who shoots is rich, and nobody uses one for work or any other perfectly legitimate purpose.

You do realise we’re talking about over half a million certificate holders here, right?

[thirdcrank]

Data here on things like the numbers of certificates and links about the detail of the regulations within it

Statistics on firearm and shotgun certificates,

England and Wales: April 2019 to March 2020

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... on%20issue

[Psamathe]

.
Put a 0 (before the decimal point) on the end of the cost of a firearms license. It's not a fundamental human right so charge (even make a profit) on thorough processing of applications.

Ian

Because everyone who shoots is rich, and nobody uses one for work or any other perfectly legitimate purpose.

You do realise we’re talking about over half a million certificate holders here, right?

My thought was in response to the workload issues. Charging a lot more allows the checking processes to be more extensive and properly resourced.

Ian

[ossie]

Much has been said of why Devon & Cornwall didn't (or apparently) study this guys social media. They may have done we don't know yet.

To look at an Individuals social media requires permissions under RIPA (Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000) and its a massive convoluted paperwork headache inducing exercise as anyone remotely involved in the process would testify.

I really cannot imagine these applications get routinely completed for assault or other allegations that don't go anywhere as in this tragic case, however expect that to change after this incident. A new standard needs to be set.

UK Police control of firearms has on the whole been exemplary over recent years, its absolutely up there as a priority in relation to Intelligence and response. More work needs to be done however and I'm sure it will be.

[simonineaston]

Don't forget that these systems are often outsourced and managed by companies like G4S etc. and are run on shoestring budgets with a view to maximising profit at any cost. They are not run with a view to offering the most effective and protective service possible... that depressing fact will likely be at the core of the sad episode in Plymouth.
Additionally, I've read that it is alledged that the aggressor spent time at a pupil referral unit and had what's known as an education health & care plan. I'm not sure of the precise obligations on pru & managing authority resulting from an ehcp, but if he attended as a teenager, the authority should have continued to monitor the individual until he reached 25. It is beginning to sound like that the concept of multi-agency consultation will not have worked as intended in this instance. This is an area which has caused problems in several high-profile social scandals in the past.
In my own professional life, there has been a trend towards reduced levels of successful comm.s between on the one hand, public agencies, such as schools and social services and on the other, private agencies such as outsourcing companies. It's kind-of baked into the cake, unfortunately... an almost inevitable reluctance for the one to talk to another, as if they somehow belong to different worlds - which in a way, they do!

[Zulu Eleven]

My thought was in response to the workload issues. Charging a lot more allows the checking processes to be more extensive and properly resourced.

Costs went up about 60% a couple of years ago. FOI’s at the time showed wild disparities in the costs different police forces were quoting for the costs of processing certificates. Part of that deal was that GP’s would be part of the system and provide reports if requested, Both the police and BMA then promptly reneged on that deal.

[Hellhound]

.
Put a 0 (before the decimal point) on the end of the cost of a firearms license. It's not a fundamental human right so charge (even make a profit) on thorough processing of applications.
Ian

Because everyone who shoots is rich, and nobody uses one for work or any other perfectly legitimate purpose.
You do realise we’re talking about over half a million certificate holders here, right?

My thought was in response to the workload issues. Charging a lot more allows the checking processes to be more extensive and properly resourced.
Ian

What is your definition of 'a lot more'?

[Oldjohnw]

I don’t know if anyone read the research referred to above but current knowledge is that between 1% and 4% of multi-homicides involve recognised mental health problems. 96% must have causes elsewhere.

Or perhaps unrecognised mental health problems?

I don’t know. I will stick with the evidence so far.

[Mike Sales]

I don’t know if anyone read the research referred to above but current knowledge is that between 1% and 4% of multi-homicides involve recognised mental health problems. 96% must have causes elsewhere.

Or perhaps unrecognised mental health problems?

I don’t know. I will stick with the evidence so far.

I'm sorry, I thought that you were drawing the implication that 96% of multi-homicides did not involve mental health causes, on the grounds that only 4% involved recognised problems.

[thirdcrank]

Perhaps this is the criminal justice influence. For a defendant who has killed somebody in circumstances otherwise amounting to murder, the route to the least onerous sentence is to plead diminished responsibility. ie a temporary lapse of self control. (My definition.)

[Oldjohnw]

Interesting article

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... SApp_Other