Will this oddball cassette work?

[pq]

A friend has asked me to sort out the gearing on his bike. Right now it's 11 speed ultegra, 50/34 up front, 11/28 at the back. The rear mech has a pretty long cage - looks like a medium judging by online pics. Regardless it will obviously cope with a 34, which is great, he wants a lower bottom gear. However, poking around I came across this 14/34 Miche cassette: https://www.bikeinn.com/cyclisme/miche- ... 2299/p?utm This would be perfect for him, because not only does he want a lower bottom gear, he also never uses the higher gears. But the rear mech spec says it's designed to work on an 11 smallest spocket. I'm sure a 12 would be fine, but 14 seems a long way off what it's designed to do. Maybe fiddling with the b tension will be enough?

So my question is, will this cassette work, or do I need to stick to a standard 11 - 34 (which seem very thin on the ground right now)?

Thanks!

[mattsccm]

Fine.

[Tompsk]

If the existing cassette has a 14t sprocket is there any way you can temporarily jiggle the order of the sprockets and mount the 14t in the 1st position to check if the top idler of the derailleur would clear it?

From the link the 11s 18-28 is a strange one. Is that for junior racing where they limit top gear?

[pq]

Since posting, I've done some more thorough googling. Yes, it seems these cassettes with very large small sprockets are for junior/juvenile racing - although they were bigger when I was a yoof. Personally, I really like them and have all my bikes set up with low top gears, but I ride Campag and don't know about Shimano.

I found a table which shows that it shouldn't work - the 14 is only ok with a short cage, but only the long cage will do the 34. But I've also come across endless dicussions on US forums about people using these cassettes on gravel, with no mention at all of the large small sprocket being an issue. They're especially fond of creating hybrid cassettes, cannibalising 2 Shimano cassettes to make a 14/32. I've also heard it said that Shimano specs are rather conservative.

Yes, I think I could bodge up a test rig. My own fondness for cassettes like this means I have several 14 top sprockets knocking around. I guess I ought to really, but my friend's bike is absolutely filthy, with all of the transmission covered in thick black gunk. My preference would be to remove the chain with bolt cutters, take the cassette off and only mess with clean shiny stuff - but I owe him a favour or two, so maybe I'll bite the bullet....

Thanks

[slowster]

The 14t sprocket will have a radius that is a smidgen more than 6mm greater than the 11t by my calculation (but best to do your own as well).

As well as checking that adjusting the B screw will give sufficient extra clearance for the 14t sprocket, I would also take a close look at the proximity of the inside of the seat stay to the chain when on the 11t and also part way through a shift with the chain rising off the 11t prior to dropping onto the next sprocket.

[pq]

Ah yes, good point, I hadn't thought about that. But now you mention it I have had that problem in the distant past running similar gear ratios. I'll measure it as you suggest, but I think I'll also be able to bodge up a test cassette to make doubly sure.

[slowster]

Ah yes, good point, I hadn't thought about that. But now you mention it I have had that problem in the distant past running similar gear ratios. I'll measure it as you suggest, but I think I'll also be able to bodge up a test cassette to make doubly sure.

I don't know what the width of those 11 speed Shimano compatible Miche cassettes is, but it might not be the same as a Shimano 11 speed cassette, which themselves come in two different widths (Shimano cassettes with 34t largest sprockets and bigger are 1.85mm narrower and require a spacer when used on an 11 speed road freehub).

Hopefully your test cassette will have so much clearance that you would not have to worry about any possible small variations between Miche and Shimano widths, but tight clearance might not be tolerant of any such variation.

Another option might be to have a 13t top sprocket. Bike Inn doesn't list that option, but The Cycle Clinic does:

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collection ... al-postion

13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27-30-34T

vs.

14-15-16-17-18-19-21-24-27-30-34T

Another consideration might be whether your friend will like/dislike the one tooth jumps between the top six sprockets. I think many would find those gaps too small, necessitating shifting at least two sprockets almost every time. If your friend is like that, he might be better served with a standard 11-34 cassette: he doesn't have to use the 11t sprocket. Comparison of 14-34 with 11-34:

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS ... 4&UF2=2150

Another option would be to replace the 50t chainring with 46t. The Ultegra chainrings are expensive and the resulting 12t difference between the chainrings is not what the front derailleur was designed/optimised for, but I think a lot of people would find that smaller gaps than the Shimano 16t default suited them better.

[pq]

It's hard to say what he'd like as he's not an experienced rider. He only rides with me and so he's quite influenced by my preferences - he's noticed I ride at quite a high cadence and that I freewheel down hills - now he more-or-less does the same. That has inevitably led him to the same conclusion I have, that high gears are not needed. At the other end, it's hilly where I live, so lower gears are always good. I like closely spaced gears after years of riding straight through blocks when I was racing - for him it's simpler, he just doesn't see the point of having gears bigger than he can push. The thing is, he needs a new cassette (and chain) anyway, whereas his chainrings are absolutely fine, so I suspect this miche cassette is the way to go.

I'm clueless about the detail of spacing on these as I don't ride Shimano 11 speed myself. But I assume the indexing will work with this Miche cassette, and if it needs a spacer, a rummage in the shed will turn something up. I never use stock cassettes, so I have lots of bits! As an aside, I do have a Miche 1st position 11 speed sprocket on my tourer, and it does overhang the hub a bit, which is what I guess makes some cassettes narrower than others.

[David9694]

Ah yes, good point, I hadn't thought about that. But now you mention it I have had that problem in the distant past running similar gear ratios. I'll measure it as you suggest, but I think I'll also be able to bodge up a test cassette to make doubly sure.

I don't know what the width of those 11 speed Shimano compatible Miche cassettes is, but it might not be the same as a Shimano 11 speed cassette, which themselves come in two different widths (Shimano cassettes with 34t largest sprockets and bigger are 1.85mm narrower and require a spacer when used on an 11 speed road freehub).

Hopefully your test cassette will have so much clearance that you would not have to worry about any possible small variations between Miche and Shimano widths, but tight clearance might not be tolerant of any such variation.

Another option might be to have a 13t top sprocket. Bike Inn doesn't list that option, but The Cycle Clinic does:

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/collection ... al-postion

13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27-30-34T

vs.

14-15-16-17-18-19-21-24-27-30-34T

Another consideration might be whether your friend will like/dislike the one tooth jumps between the top six sprockets. I think many would find those gaps too small, necessitating shifting at least two sprockets almost every time. If your friend is like that, he might be better served with a standard 11-34 cassette: he doesn't have to use the 11t sprocket. Comparison of 14-34 with 11-34:

http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS ... 4&UF2=2150

Another option would be to replace the 50t chainring with 46t. The Ultegra chainrings are expensive and the resulting 12t difference between the chainrings is not what the front derailleur was designed/optimised for, but I think a lot of people would find that smaller gaps than the Shimano 16t default suited them better.

Thanks for the tip on Miche / Cycle Clinic - I guess the asking price at half the £££ Shimano goes for nowadays is partly why he seems to be out of stock on all 10s combinations.

[tatanab]

Yes, it seems these cassettes with very large small sprockets

Cripes - looking at the six derailleur machines in my shed, only one has one as small as 12T with the rest having small sprockets of 13 or even 15T. Never a problem. (The 15T is paired with a 50T chainring to give the same top gear as the 12T does with a 40T chainring).

[robgul]

When I ran an LBS I fitted several of the Miche cassettes 14-34 to bikes - no issues.

And it's mentioned up-thread that Shimano is conservative on max sprocket teeth . . . unofficial rule of thumb is 2 more than they say! I run a 36 on my Ultegra equipped machine - just need to wind the B-screw in a bit*

* there is also the old trick for bigger sprockets of fiting the B-screw in the derailleur from the "inside" to gain some length with the head of the screw (takes some fiddling to get it right, but it works)

[pq]

Thanks everyone. I've ordered a 13/34 from cycleclinic which I think will suit my friend very well and I'm confident it'll work - I was especially persuaded by the cycleclinic guy who would know this stuff.