Are there better solutions? (Moulton)

[Mick F]

............ but, why step though?
Why not put a leg over the saddle?

Moulton TSR cross-members aren't low enough as a step-through. You still have to stretch ........ albeit less than over the saddle, but it's still a stretch. The frames are wide and not that low.

Lower cross-bars, are easy as a step-through. Rode a RSW16 for a while, and even a Raleigh Chopper, and they were easy.

Could be that other Moultons with smaller wheels, or older Moultons are different.
No experience of any of those, so can't comment on them.

[rogerzilla]

Another design fault of the TSR (I may be a heretic, but I think AM was an inventor more than he was an engineer) is the location of the accessible bottle cage bosses, right where your knees go. So you buy an aero bottle and cage to make room for your knees. Then, as you step through the frame, you kick your bottle out of its clip.

It's all part of the experience!

[Norman]

............ but, why step though?
Why not put a leg over the saddle?

I can assure you that lifting your leg over the saddle gets more difficult with age!
An old friend of mine used to have to practically lie the bike down to get off it. He had a very nice woman's bike which had belonged to his late wife but he wouldn't even consider riding it.

[UpWrong]

Pacific cycles did a light weight suspended 20" wheeled bike. An alternative?

[iandusud]

Another design fault of the TSR (I may be a heretic, but I think AM was an inventor more than he was an engineer) is the location of the accessible bottle cage bosses, right where your knees go. So you buy an aero bottle and cage to make room for your knees. Then, as you step through the frame, you kick your bottle out of its clip.

It's all part of the experience!

I met with Alex M many times in relation to the development of the AM bikes and, whilst he had his faults (not an easy man to work with), I can assure you he was an excellent engineer. In fact I would say that was his strength (and also his weakness as engineering considerations dominated his decision making). I have never had a problem using standard bottles on Moultons nor have I known it to be a problem amongst other Moultoneers. You may have thighs like Sir Chris Hoy, in which case I envy you.

[jimlews]

Alternative to a moulton?

Dawes Kingpin.

A quote from 'another place'.

"Over the years I've owned a variety of small wheeled bikes
as that little Dawes fired an enthusiasm for the small wheel concept.
I have owned a variety of Moultons and Bromptons but despite their high cost
they have not been much of an improvement on our original Dawes Kingpin."

So by any cost benefit criteria, the Dawes Kingpin
is clearly a superior machine and a viable alternative.

[Mick F]

I've got used to my thighs rubbing on the bottle on the seat tube. Perhaps I don't notice it now, but I did at first.
Why the other bottle bosses are on the bottom, I don't know, but a full bottle down there works its way out throughout a ride.
When I need a drink, I'll use the bottom one first as when it's lighter, it doesn't wriggle/bounce its way out.

[Norman]

I'd wondered about the position of the bottle cage. I have a fitting for a handlbar cage so only need two bottles on very hot days. Is there any way of fitting a cage at the back of the seat post? That would be a good position for me because I'll be using my ancient Carradice Nelson bag so there would be space.
Mick, doesn't your lower bottle get sprayed with muck down there?

I did consider alternatives to the Moulton. Recently I visited someone who used something like a Dawes Kingpin for touring, but he had done a lot of modifications. He had the engineering skills and equipment that I don't have.

[rogerzilla]

Whether your knees actually touch it depends on your leg length/saddle height and pedalling style. Correct pedalling technique is for your knees to almost touch the top tube of a conventional frame, although you see some horrible styles with one or both knees stuck right out (this usually indicates the saddle is too low as well).

In my case the TSR is actually unrideable with a normal bottle, unless I am willing to wreck my knees by riding it differently to any other bike. This is why the aftermarket sells bottle holders that go either side of the head tube. It is a common problem.

[simonineaston]

My AM came with three neat wire bottle cages, from Nitto. One's in the usual place (front of seat tube), the other two are either side of the steerer tube, by virtue of a pair of mounts (rather dear, I'm afraid), the design of which is based on a tube. I think this position works rather well.

[Mick F]

Yes, it gets splattered with rain/muck etc.
The bike as per the photo, is a bit old, as much of the component stuff is different now ......... though the frame is the same.
Mudguards help to keep the muck off the bottom bottle.

The second set of bosses are in the wrong place IMO.
You could fit a second set of bosses at the front section rather than the rear section and well away from the wheels.

The first set, could have been on the top of the front section lattice rather than the thigh-rubbing seat tube position.

The whole bike is a ........... what we used to call in the RN .............. a Pot Mess.
Just a hotch-potch of stuff thrown into a pot and cooked up to eat.

[gazza_d]

I'm also a member of the Moulton club. Although I've never had chance to make a BoA meeting I want to one day. The magazine is a good read.

As for the bottle cages, I've never had an issue with running. I do have to make sure I position it so the tabs on the lid don't catch.

As I wear casual shirts rather than lycra I do find that a normal cage caught on the short legs when no bottle was in. I use zefal spring cages currently and have no issues.

When I used to tour on conventional bikes, I used to use the mounts below the downtube for the fuel bottle as it did get covered in crud. You can get bidons with covers for over the drinking bit.

[Jdsk]

When I used to tour on conventional bikes, I used to use the mounts below the downtube for the fuel bottle as it did get covered in crud.

That's what I do on the nonMoulton upright tourer, using a SIGG cage.

Jonathan

[rogerzilla]

I've just acquired an F-frame Moulton. Now, it's a heavy lump (the rear trailing arm weighs as much as some frames!) but I do wonder whether it's actually a better design. There is no stiction in the front suspension, the rear rack is standard and integrated, and it doesn't have any problem with rear pivot longevity.

It could be made a lot lighter these days (and sort of has, by Bridgestone).

The cynic in me thinks the spaceframes, fun and cool as they are, are just "to be different". I think Raleigh or its successors may still own some key F-frame patents.

[simonineaston]

I know what you mean, rz - the rear suspension on a series 1 F frame is a thing of simple genius. Lots of movement, rising rate and self-damping. The front suspension isn't quite the same 'specially after half a century or more, but freshly refurbed with a carefully selected spline/collar match, and it isn't too bad either. I have a series 1 set up as a commuter/gp/tourer and I think it has a sort of leisurely, unhurried, comfy feel to it that I enjoy a lot, although I rarely use it these days. At the moment, it sits in splendour on the balcony, overlooking the cricket pitch & as such gets very occasional coverage on YouTube !