UFOs

[jgurney]

against two pilots .... and their observers in reletively none stressed flying situation ....

By their account they encountered what appeared to them to be an flying craft of unknown and inherently mysterious origin and unknown intentions, which demonstrated that it could fly, climb and turn faster than their own aircraft, to an extent that they rapidly lost contact with it and could not tell whether it might reappear at any moment from an unknown direction. That must have raised the anticipation of risks of both accidental collision and posible hostile activity. I very much doubt they were non-stressed.

[Jdsk]

...
A former intelligence official in the US claiming the US is in possession of alien craft:-https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... spacecraft

Concerns have rightly been expressed in this forum about future misinformation from AI. I've recommended that we apply the same standards as we should to misinformation from carbon-based terrestrial lifeforms. And that the key countermeasure is checking whom and what to trust.

Does anyone fancy applying this to what we actually know about this story and what we don't?

Jonathan

[reohn2]

Yes but again that next step change in evolution could be the AI that replaces us and maybe already -- them hence why I said not biological or more accurately maybe biological but synthetic or manufactured.

That's a possibility though by no means a certainty.

Any natural evolution traps us even more to our respective planets.

Why?
Ever heard of stepping stones,they get you to the "otherside" without getting your feet wet
We could be dealing with a civilisation far beyond our wildest imagine with technology we can't even comprehend and which overcame the pettiness of our own many eons ago.

Absolutely not limited to young people but a common denominator among the believers of UFO etc is that they are more likely to believe in ghosts etc -- try asking the next person you meet who believes men didn't land on the moon if they believe in ghosts or UFOs. I do that every time and get the same answer " yes " some are convinced they've seen one. I have found more young than older people don't believe men set foot on the moon. Some are convinced they exist but have never seen one but also don't believe men walked on the moon.

One person's asking of a few others what they think on any subjest isn't anywhere near the truth of the matter.
For instance walk into any Christian church and ask the congregation if they believe in God.
Did you ask those same young people why they didn't believe in the Moon landing?
Could young people's lack of belief of a Moon landing be more to do with a rejection of officialdom?

UFO only means Unidentified Flying Object and isn't limited to ET craft but simply unexplainable ariel phenomena.

[reohn2]

...
A former intelligence official in the US claiming the US is in possession of alien craft:-https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... spacecraft

Concerns have rightly been expressed in this forum about future misinformation from AI. I've recommended that we apply the same standards as we should to misinformation from carbon-based terrestrial lifeforms. And that the key countermeasure is checking whom and what to trust.

Does anyone fancy applying this to what we actually know about this story and what we don't?

Jonathan

It's a story in a newspaper that AFAIA hasn't yet been denied by US authorities.

EDIT:- Maybe because they think it ridiculous or maybe they can't deny it.
It's only recently the US military has become more "open" on the subject of UFO/UAPs until then they denied practically everything about them.

[Jdsk]

...
A former intelligence official in the US claiming the US is in possession of alien craft:-https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... spacecraft

Concerns have rightly been expressed in this forum about future misinformation from AI. I've recommended that we apply the same standards as we should to misinformation from carbon-based terrestrial lifeforms. And that the key countermeasure is checking whom and what to trust.

Does anyone fancy applying this to what we actually know about this story and what we don't?

It's a story in a newspaper that AFAIA hasn't yet been denied by US authorities.

"Hasn't yet been denied" is about as low in the hierarchy of evidence as it's possible to get.

And there's plenty within the story that's amenable to checking.

Jonathan

[reohn2]

See my edit.

[Jdsk]

...
It's only recently the US military has become more "open" on the subject of UFO/UAPs until then they denied practically everything about them.

Please can you put a date on "recently".

Thanks

Jonathan

[reohn2]

...
It's only recently the US military has become more "open" on the subject of UFO/UAPs until then they denied practically everything about them.

Please can you put a date on "recently".

Thanks

Jonathan

IIRC within the last 10 years or so,sorry I don't have a link

[Jdsk]

...
It's only recently the US military has become more "open" on the subject of UFO/UAPs until then they denied practically everything about them.

Please can you put a date on "recently".

IIRC within the last 10 years or so,sorry I don't have a link

Thanks.

There's a convenient history of the published reports in the Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidentif ... of_reports

That includes the Condon Committee report from 1968.

But it might be helpful to distinguish between "denying" and not finding evidence of existence.

Jonathan

[reohn2]

Please can you put a date on "recently".

IIRC within the last 10 years or so,sorry I don't have a link

Thanks.

There's a convenient history of the published reports in the Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidentif ... of_reports

That includes the Condon Committee report from 1968.

But it might be helpful to distinguish between "denying" and not finding evidence of existence.

Jonathan

There has been unexplainable sightings passed off by the US and UK MOD as "natural" without explanation.

To be clear I remain yet to be convinced one way or the other of ET craft sightings though there are some intriguing cases by sound people that remain a mystery.
Wikki's UK UFO pafe:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_sight ... th_century

EDIT:- Guadian article on the latest US Penagon report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... seriously-

[jgurney]

Absolutely not limited to young people but a common denominator among the believers of UFO etc is that they are more likely to believe in ghosts etc

Quite so, which IMO inherently undermines their claims. Considering that an extraterrestrial civilisation with highly advanced technology might exist and be visiting the Earth has some logic to it, and beliefs in ghosts have some consistency with related ideas, but believing in both makes no sense unless the believer's real motive is to reject the scientific consensus and therefore to agree with anything and everything not compatible with it. It seems significant that a number of those believers also embrace notions like the pseudo-legal claims of the 'Freemen on the land', etc, again compatible with the theory that their underlying motive is to reject conventional authority, in both the legal and the academic senses.

I have found more young than older people don't believe men set foot on the moon. Some are convinced they [ghosts, UFO's] exist but have never seen one but also don't believe men walked on the moon.

How young were they? Teenagers claiming to believe in the supernatural because it is a way that they can irritate teachers without inviting punishment for breaking rules is not unknown. Similarly, in that all the men who have walked on the Moon were American, white and (at least notionally) Christian, asserting that it did not happen can be, for some young people, a way of asserting nationalistic, ethnic or religious identities, whatever they really believe about the facts.

[simonineaston]

I used to like them books by that Swiss bloke... and Father Christmas, too ! But I was younger then and more credulous.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_Däniken

[jgurney]

I used to like them books by that Swiss bloke... and Father Christmas, too ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_Däniken

Until getting to the end and seeing the name in the link, I thought you might mean this Swiss character: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Meier
Just as ludicrous and with a dash of antisemitism thrown in.

[Jdsk]

...
EDIT:- Guadian article on the latest US Penagon report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... seriously-

That's a terrible article. It jumps around between a Pentagon report, video recordings, personal stories of abduction, and the psychology of why people remember experiences that they haven't experienced.

That last of those is important and deserves better.

"For some, the fact that the Pentagon has finally admitted it cannot explain the behaviour of the objects may have been a surprise... "

Official US sources have said for decades that there are observations that they can't explain.

Jonathan

[Cowsham]

Yes but again that next step change in evolution could be the AI that replaces us and maybe already -- them hence why I said not biological or more accurately maybe biological but synthetic or manufactured.

That's a possibility though by no means a certainty.

There will be a machine super intelligence on this planet and this will happen very soon after the event horizon of this technology which is coming at speed now hence all the noise in the press about it currently.

This is only thing I believe is a certainty


I've been warning about it for many years ( about 30 years now ) but I have no idea what to do about it or what regulations to put in place to control it.

We will be like pets to it eventually.

The stage we know about is that the learning computers are producing code which their inventors ( of the learning machines ) take weeks to break down and understand.

What's really scary is that the scientists sometimes don't understand how the machines came up with the code in the first place.

All this going on and yet some people are more concerned about some alien being able to cross vast chasms of space and interested in us above all the other more interesting life they could find. Now that's arrogant.