New report from the House of Lords. "Transporting goods" is in Chapter 3:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/l ... tAnchor001
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/l ... tAnchor043
Jonathan
New report from the House of Lords. "Transporting goods" is in Chapter 3:
Farmers Weekly yesterday:francovendee wrote: ↑16 Dec 2021, 5:15pm I heard a farming program on radio 4 this morning.
The pig farmers have slaughtered 30000 pigs on farms due to processors not able to take them.
Under the governments visa scheme the industry is allowed to bring 800 butchers to the UK on a temporary basis.
So far 50 have arrived, some from Russia and Brazil.
One hurdle applicants have to clear is ability to speak English.
The rules insist on this.
When EU workers were allowed to come there wasn't this requirement so why is now necessary for temporary labour?
Surely there are sound reasons for wanting workers to be able to speak the language of the place where they are working. Reasons to do with safety and the ability to understand the rules that apply. It is a very basic requirement.francovendee wrote: ↑16 Dec 2021, 5:15pm I heard a farming program on radio 4 this morning.
The pig farmers have slaughtered 30000 pigs on farms due to processors not able to take them.
Under the governments visa scheme the industry is allowed to bring 800 butchers to the UK on a temporary basis.
So far 50 have arrived, some from Russia and Brazil.
One hurdle applicants have to clear is ability to speak English.
The rules insist on this.
When EU workers were allowed to come there wasn't this requirement so why is now necessary for temporary labour?
I understand George Eustice is very unpopular with the farming community and hurriedly fled a press meeting leaving his glasses and notes behind.
It's temporary work. Round here a lot of such "migrant labour" work in teams with a foreman who can translate and live in larg'ish digs. They don't tend to do the local tourism stuff (but no reason why they need to speak English to do that anyway). I've travelled to many countries where I have spoken nothing in local language, some countries where I refused to even learn a few words (e.g. Vietnamese, tonal language very very dependent on complex pronunciation). I've always found that with the right attitude travelling without language is not an issue. I've also learnt a fair amount of local language for other countries visited. How many people going and working in Netherlands learn Dutch? (I did and it nearly got me arrested one cycle tour - funny story and NOT my misuse of long ago learnt language).pwa wrote: ↑18 Dec 2021, 7:41pmSurely there are sound reasons for wanting workers to be able to speak the language of the place where they are working. Reasons to do with safety and the ability to understand the rules that apply. It is a very basic requirement.francovendee wrote: ↑16 Dec 2021, 5:15pm I heard a farming program on radio 4 this morning.
The pig farmers have slaughtered 30000 pigs on farms due to processors not able to take them.
Under the governments visa scheme the industry is allowed to bring 800 butchers to the UK on a temporary basis.
So far 50 have arrived, some from Russia and Brazil.
One hurdle applicants have to clear is ability to speak English.
The rules insist on this.
When EU workers were allowed to come there wasn't this requirement so why is now necessary for temporary labour?
I understand George Eustice is very unpopular with the farming community and hurriedly fled a press meeting leaving his glasses and notes behind.
I have worked alongside a few foreign colleagues and they have all had a reasonable grasp of English, certainly good enough for the workplace. And looking at it from another angle, I have always thought it pretty poor when Brits work abroad without having the language of the place where they work. I'd be ashamed if that were me.
I'm talking about workers, not tourists. And we are talking about professional butchers. Okay, as a sticking plaster quick fix a little community of non-English speakers who never have to speak English because they don't mix with the locals, and who have rules explained to them, might be acceptable, but it isn't great, is it? If anything is bound to lead to a "them and us" situation, the lack of a common language will. Nor is it great when Brits work abroad without being able to speak enough of the local language to get by.Psamathe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2021, 8:18pm
It's temporary work. Round here a lot of such "migrant labour" work in teams with a foreman who can translate and live in larg'ish digs. They don't tend to do the local tourism stuff (but no reason why they need to speak English to do that anyway). I've travelled to many countries where I have spoken nothing in local language, some countries where I refused to even learn a few words (e.g. Vietnamese, tonal language very very dependent on complex pronunciation). I've always found that with the right attitude travelling without language is not an issue. I've also learnt a fair amount of local language for other countries visited. How many people going and working in Netherlands learn Dutch? (I did and it nearly got me arrested one cycle tour - funny story and NOT my misuse of long ago learnt language).
Ian
I have local migrant labour gangs living down the road, specialised work (poultry) and they don't speak English and manage fine with foreman who can instruct and translate. They don't try and integrate but there is really no opportunity locally for them to integrate. Their priority is to work long hours and earn as much as they can.pwa wrote: ↑18 Dec 2021, 8:28pmI'm talking about workers, not tourists. And we are talking about professional butchers. Okay, as a sticking plaster quick fix a little community of non-English speakers who never have to speak English because they don't mix with the locals, and who have rules explained to them, might be acceptable, but it isn't great, is it? If anything is bound to lead to a "them and us" situation, the lack of a common language will. Nor is it great when Brits work abroad without being able to speak enough of the local language to get by.Psamathe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2021, 8:18pm
It's temporary work. Round here a lot of such "migrant labour" work in teams with a foreman who can translate and live in larg'ish digs. They don't tend to do the local tourism stuff (but no reason why they need to speak English to do that anyway). I've travelled to many countries where I have spoken nothing in local language, some countries where I refused to even learn a few words (e.g. Vietnamese, tonal language very very dependent on complex pronunciation). I've always found that with the right attitude travelling without language is not an issue. I've also learnt a fair amount of local language for other countries visited. How many people going and working in Netherlands learn Dutch? (I did and it nearly got me arrested one cycle tour - funny story and NOT my misuse of long ago learnt language).
Ian
Are you happy with that? It doesn't feel right to me. One community living alongside another, with no real contact. It can't be a great way for them to live either.Psamathe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2021, 8:33pmI have local migrant labour gangs living down the road, specialised work (poultry) and they don't speak English and manage fine with foreman who can instruct and translate. They don't try and integrate but there is really no opportunity locally for them to integrate. Their priority is to work long hours and earn as much as they can.pwa wrote: ↑18 Dec 2021, 8:28pmI'm talking about workers, not tourists. And we are talking about professional butchers. Okay, as a sticking plaster quick fix a little community of non-English speakers who never have to speak English because they don't mix with the locals, and who have rules explained to them, might be acceptable, but it isn't great, is it? If anything is bound to lead to a "them and us" situation, the lack of a common language will. Nor is it great when Brits work abroad without being able to speak enough of the local language to get by.Psamathe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2021, 8:18pm
It's temporary work. Round here a lot of such "migrant labour" work in teams with a foreman who can translate and live in larg'ish digs. They don't tend to do the local tourism stuff (but no reason why they need to speak English to do that anyway). I've travelled to many countries where I have spoken nothing in local language, some countries where I refused to even learn a few words (e.g. Vietnamese, tonal language very very dependent on complex pronunciation). I've always found that with the right attitude travelling without language is not an issue. I've also learnt a fair amount of local language for other countries visited. How many people going and working in Netherlands learn Dutch? (I did and it nearly got me arrested one cycle tour - funny story and NOT my misuse of long ago learnt language).
Ian
Ian
It's not something that bothers me. When I've lived somewhere (or spent a lot of time somewhere) I have learnt the language (as far as time and my ability permitted) - but I have been "integrating" e.g. working in NL with Dutch people in Dutch company, living in France in area where I was the only foreigner. But the "migrant labour" are here for very different reasons and their not speaking English does not really impact them or us.pwa wrote: ↑18 Dec 2021, 8:47pmAre you happy with that? It doesn't feel right to me. One community living alongside another, with no real contact. It can't be a great way for them to live either.Psamathe wrote: ↑18 Dec 2021, 8:33pmI have local migrant labour gangs living down the road, specialised work (poultry) and they don't speak English and manage fine with foreman who can instruct and translate. They don't try and integrate but there is really no opportunity locally for them to integrate. Their priority is to work long hours and earn as much as they can.pwa wrote: ↑18 Dec 2021, 8:28pm
I'm talking about workers, not tourists. And we are talking about professional butchers. Okay, as a sticking plaster quick fix a little community of non-English speakers who never have to speak English because they don't mix with the locals, and who have rules explained to them, might be acceptable, but it isn't great, is it? If anything is bound to lead to a "them and us" situation, the lack of a common language will. Nor is it great when Brits work abroad without being able to speak enough of the local language to get by.
Ian
With no evidence, I do wonder if the real reason is he's come to realise he really did negotiate and agree and support the Brexit departure deal and has rather late realised the EU are not going to back down and that we need them more than they need us. So leaving to get somebody else to have to eventually admit failure.Jdsk wrote: ↑18 Dec 2021, 9:26pm Screenshot 2021-12-18 at 21.22.59.png
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Boris.html
I'd put this squarely in the Opportunities quadrant for supply chains.
Jonathan