Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
tim-b
Posts: 2093
Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by tim-b »

Jdsk wrote: 16 May 2023, 9:12am
tim-b wrote: 16 May 2023, 9:09am
Tim-b
There aren't many Brits willing to pick fruit in all weathers whatever the wage when they can earn as much without being cold,wet and miserable all day long on piece work working to a deadline when there's better jobs out there.
It follows that farmers have to move from the free accommodation/low-wage model that they've adopted so that local people can earn more than they would in a factory.
For the record I know of several uni students who would work picking during the summer hols had the farmers not been stuck pre-2016. Talk of not wanting work year-round is just that unless farmers adapt and try so that we get sprouts at Chrimbo
...
My emboldening.

As upthread... there isn't any "have to". They can leave the crops unpicked, as they have done, or abandon production, as they have done.

Jonathan
They have to if they want to remain in that business. One of the Farm Fresh farms is the company that I was thinking of, their entire business is soft fruit https://www.farmfreshpo.co.uk/ (looks like farmfreshpoo :) ) and one of the chain supplying Tesco. It isn't a small PYO
If you can bear Clarkson being his on-screen persona, watch his farming series https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10541088/
It really does open your eyes to the pooh-show that is planning and DEFRA in the UK.
This isn't a Brexit/EU-problem, it's a UK political problem that's been brewing for decades...~80% self-sufficiency in 1984, ~60% today
Last edited by tim-b on 16 May 2023, 9:34am, edited 1 time in total.
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~
Jdsk
Posts: 24640
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

But many have already told us that they won't stay in that business under these conditions.

And this repeated in other sectors is one of the reasons for the UK's current (!) and predicted economic performance.

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 24640
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

tim-b wrote: 16 May 2023, 9:32am ...
This isn't a Brexit/EU-problem, it's a UK political problem that's been brewing for decades...~80% self-sufficiency in 1984, ~60% today
There are many factors involved. The increased barriers that the UK has chosen to implement are one of them. There's a "food summit" today. I'm not expecting much from that. But the pressure from Ministers who see their sectors held back by shortage of labour will have some effect.

Jonathan
axel_knutt
Posts: 2881
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by axel_knutt »

tim-b wrote: 16 May 2023, 9:32am
Jdsk wrote: 16 May 2023, 9:12am
tim-b wrote: 16 May 2023, 9:09am
It follows that farmers have to move from the free accommodation/low-wage model that they've adopted so that local people can earn more than they would in a factory.
For the record I know of several uni students who would work picking during the summer hols had the farmers not been stuck pre-2016. Talk of not wanting work year-round is just that unless farmers adapt and try so that we get sprouts at Chrimbo
...
My emboldening.

As upthread... there isn't any "have to". They can leave the crops unpicked, as they have done, or abandon production, as they have done.

Jonathan
They have to if they want to remain in that business.
They'll still go out of business if the higher wages make their produce uncompetitive with imports from the EU where they can benefit from cheaper east European labour.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
PH
Posts: 13106
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by PH »

We're not going to get people to pick crops for any wage the employers could pay from the crops value. Before the EU workers it was largely travellers, I did a fair bit from early 80's to late 90's, mainly winter crops, I had better things to do in the summer. Sprouts, potatoes, cabbage, swede, cauliflower and a bit of greenhouse planting. It was all hard graft, reasonably well paid, free park-up, sometimes free or cheap electricity. You could earn a decent chunk of cash (And it was cash) and the farmer/contractor would be understanding when you needed time off to sign on*. You had to have the lifestyle that could cope with the total lack of security, there's several parallels to working in the gig economy today. Even before Brexit, young Europeans who wanted a proper job were not interested in seasonal work, it's casual, that's always been the appeal to those who've done it and why everyone else will reject it.

*Yes I know this is a stereotype, but that doesn't make it untrue :wink:
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Psamathe »

PH wrote: 16 May 2023, 4:33pm We're not going to get people to pick crops for any wage the employers could pay from the crops value. ....
I think one needs to distinguish between the "real world" where what you say is quite true vs the "fantasy world" where (mainly Conservative) politicians live ...

Ian
tim-b
Posts: 2093
Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by tim-b »

Jdsk wrote: 16 May 2023, 9:37am
tim-b wrote: 16 May 2023, 9:32am ...
This isn't a Brexit/EU-problem, it's a UK political problem that's been brewing for decades...~80% self-sufficiency in 1984, ~60% today
There are many factors involved. The increased barriers that the UK has chosen to implement are one of them. There's a "food summit" today. I'm not expecting much from that. But the pressure from Ministers who see their sectors held back by shortage of labour will have some effect.

Jonathan
Let's hope so. We simply haven't seen any plans for anything post-Brexit.
The result of the vote was what it was, but it wasn't a reason for our politicians to rush into freefall Brexit :shock:
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~
Jdsk
Posts: 24640
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

Cheese and meat imports

"Britain faces ‘cheese blockade’ on purchases from Europe"
"Cold Chain Federation head calls for Government rethink on Brexit controls, warning of shortages, less consumer choice and higher prices"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... eck-plans/
(Paywalled, which is ironically appropriate)

“We’re going to see EU-based cheese and meat suppliers finding on November 1 that they can’t fulfil their Christmas orders."

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 24640
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 20 May 2023, 9:04am Cheese and meat imports

"Britain faces ‘cheese blockade’ on purchases from Europe"
"Cold Chain Federation head calls for Government rethink on Brexit controls, warning of shortages, less consumer choice and higher prices"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... eck-plans/
(Paywalled, which is ironically appropriate)

“We’re going to see EU-based cheese and meat suppliers finding on November 1 that they can’t fulfil their Christmas orders."
"Post-Brexit import checks due to be introduced this autumn are predicted to cause "a shock in the system" with the price of meat and dairy seeing another spike on top of recent inflation.":
https://www.politicshome.com/news/artic ... -inflation

Jonathan
PH
Posts: 13106
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by PH »

It seems Brexit uncertainty has made food a worthwhile commodity to gamble on the futures market, the rich get richer:
https://www.cips.org/supply-management/ ... alisation/
UpWrong
Posts: 2409
Joined: 31 May 2009, 12:16pm
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by UpWrong »

Psamathe wrote: 16 May 2023, 5:07pm
PH wrote: 16 May 2023, 4:33pm We're not going to get people to pick crops for any wage the employers could pay from the crops value. ....
I think one needs to distinguish between the "real world" where what you say is quite true vs the "fantasy world" where (mainly Conservative) politicians live ...

Ian
I do wonder if there's a potential in the summer to employ school kids (say over 14 yr old upwards) and students. They'd be below the threshold to pay tax. They are probably too glued to their smartphones to be bothered though.
User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 11537
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Think Cheddar and Cider
Contact:

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by al_yrpal »

Apart from Parmesan I find EU cheeses mostly very poor, couldnt care less.

Remainiacs don't care about facts. If it's raining, it's Brexit, If it's too sunny, it's Brexit, if a chaffinch farts in Cheshire, it's Brexit. They just don't care.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Jdsk
Posts: 24640
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

PH wrote: 31 May 2023, 12:01pm It seems Brexit uncertainty has made food a worthwhile commodity to gamble on the futures market, the rich get richer:
https://www.cips.org/supply-management/ ... alisation/
Thanks. I hadn't seen that before.

Jonathan

PS: Here's the updated report on food prices which is mentioned in it:
https://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit18.pdf
which includes:

"Between December 2019 and March 2023 food prices rose by almost 25 percentage points. Our analysis suggests that in the absence of Brexit this figure would be 8 percentage points (30%) lower."
Jdsk
Posts: 24640
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

"As white elephants go, few come larger than £25m. That is the cost of the hi-tech border control post, built to government specifications to handle post-Brexit checks on goods entering the UK, that sits near the waterfront at Portsmouth international port."
"The building has sat empty and unused for almost a year since its completion, after the UK government announced in April last year that the introduction of post-Brexit import checks would be delayed for a fourth time."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ntrol-post

There was discussion of legal action but I don't think that it got anywhere:
https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/polit ... 4m-3674764

Jonathan
PH
Posts: 13106
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by PH »

al_yrpal wrote: 31 May 2023, 1:17pm Remainiacs don't care about facts.
Al
The facts don't care what your political views or history are, this thread is full of them, ignoring them must take the same level of self belief that flat earthers exhibit. Rather than name calling, why not pull out something that's been posted as a fact and explain why it's incorrect? or even post some reputable evidence that contradicts it?
Last edited by PH on 31 May 2023, 3:18pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply