Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

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Jdsk
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

Heritage products:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ying-cards

Ironic, but still depressing.

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

Clinical trials: "Britain’s Covid research led the world – why have our clinical trials fallen off a cliff?":
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... um=twitter

Jonathan
reohn2
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

Both previous to the Guardian,can they be believed :shock: :wink:
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Jdsk
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

Jdsk wrote: 21 May 2022, 9:00pm
al_yrpal wrote: 21 May 2022, 8:25pm I believe decent wages will always attract people to work where there are labour shortages.
There is no economic principle that says that supply and demand of labour will keep the same level of production of the same product in the same place.

Production might decrease or stop or move elsewhere. As with soft fruits:

"In general the likely consequences of restricted seasonal worker numbers would be as follows:
- A reduction in the volume of UK Soft Fruit production.
- A reduction in the number of UK Soft Fruit-growing businesses.
- A reduced area of Soft Fruit production in the UK.
- A significant reduction in UK self-sufficiency in a highly perishable product which, both economically and environmentally, should be produced as close to the point of consumption as possible.
- An increase in the volume of Soft Fruit imports into the UK, with a detrimental effect on the balance of payments and the environment (with increased transportation), as well as reducing or removing the opportunity for consumers to buy local produce.
- A reduction in taxation income for the UK Government – Income Tax, Corporation Tax and National Insurance from both employers and employees.
- A reduction in overall market supply, increasing prices to UK consumers (which would be greater in the event of weak Sterling).
- A reduction in the consumption of Soft Fruit by UK consumers as a result of reduced availability and increased price (which could be exacerbated in the event that Soft Fruit becomes the subject of tariffs). Soft Fruit marketing specialists estimate that the loss of a seasonal labour supply could lead to price inflation for strawberries and raspberries in the range 35–50% from current levels."

"The Impact of Brexit on the UK Soft Fruit Industry"
https://www.britishsummerfruits.co.uk/u ... Report.pdf

"One of the UK’s biggest berry farms is moving part of its operations to China because it claims it can’t find enough workers."
https://unitelive.org/brexit-berries-threat/
Well-briefed article on the UK's problems with food supply:
"Ministers call for immigration and UK food prices to increase":
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... o-increase

And the familiar tension between Ministers who want to keep immigration down and Ministers who want their sectors to succeed is coming to the boil again:
"Suella Braverman to rebuff cabinet calls for easing of visa rules":
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... visa-rules

Jonathan
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al_yrpal
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by al_yrpal »

Never mind the EU loving Britain hating rag's stories.... Independent my posterior!

Train fruit pickers and lorry drivers to cut migration, says Suella Braverman - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65593353


Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
reohn2
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

Al
We're in full employment,because of that there's no one to pick the fruit and veg,that's why farmers last year and the year before had to leave crops rotting in the field.
It's same story with HGV drivers.

BTW you couldn't pay me enough to do either job.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Jdsk
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

al_yrpal wrote: 15 May 2023, 12:54pm ...
Train fruit pickers and lorry drivers to cut migration, says Suella Braverman - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65593353
...
Yes, that's the same story: Ministers are pulling in different directions. And leaking that they are.

Jonathan
reohn2
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

It's not so long ago govt ministers were claiming OAPs could pick the fruit and veg
Yeah right ,we all clamoured for that job! :roll:
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Vorpal
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Vorpal »

reohn2 wrote: 15 May 2023, 1:53pm It's not so long ago govt ministers were claiming OAPs could pick the fruit and veg
Yeah right ,we all clamoured for that job! :roll:
OAPs? :lol:

I *did* work like that when I was young, and it's horrible back-breaking labour. I can't imagine doing it in my 50s, let alone in 10 or 20 years.
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reohn2
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

Vorpal wrote: 15 May 2023, 2:34pm
reohn2 wrote: 15 May 2023, 1:53pm It's not so long ago govt ministers were claiming OAPs could pick the fruit and veg
Yeah right ,we all clamoured for that job! :roll:
OAPs? :lol:

I *did* work like that when I was young, and it's horrible back-breaking labour. I can't imagine doing it in my 50s, let alone in 10 or 20 years.
Nope neither can I but that was suggested by our illustrious friends in government not so long ago :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Jon in Sweden
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jon in Sweden »

reohn2 wrote: 15 May 2023, 1:48pm Al
We're in full employment,because of that there's no one to pick the fruit and veg,that's why farmers last year and the year before had to leave crops rotting in the field.
It's same story with HGV drivers.

BTW you couldn't pay me enough to do either job.
I took my HGV class 1 last June (straight from B+E, no minors on my test either - not that I'm smug about it or anything! :lol: )

And then in July I left the UK :lol:

Driving HGVs in the UK is appalling. The rest stops are dreadful, expensive and often disgusting. The transport infrastructure is woefully inadequate to accommodate artics (I did my training and test in Exeter, going right through the city centre at rushhour at times) and there is hostility towards HGVs, despite the fact that they transport literally everything we have.

I'd drive here, but the hours are long. The lorries are much larger though, at 25m rather than 18.5m, up to 75t, rather than 44t.
tim-b
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by tim-b »

It's same story with HGV drivers.
I had my call-up papers during the main pandemic period, it went in the bin for the reasons that Jon mentioned

Part of the problem with veg/fruit-picking is that farmers have a model of providing free accommodation and a low wage. Those Brits who want the work need a higher wage to support their own homes and don't want to live in a caravan. You don't hear the farmers mentioning this!
There is a thriving business for Europeans living here to run agency worker companies, recruiting from their country of origin. This eats further into farmers' profits
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~
reohn2
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

Jon
I couldn't agree more,my SinL is an HGV driver,no tramping only day runs.
When the government in their infinite wisdom decided to send all the EU HGV drivers home,then offered short term sort term visa to them all :roll: ,HGV pay rocketed due to a shortage of drivers,at least some good came out of it.
At the same time the appalling driver facilities conditions were promised to improve,ask any UK HGV driver if that ever materialised and like everything else the Tory government have promised,it didn't.

Tim-b
There aren't many Brits willing to pick fruit in all weathers whatever the wage when they can earn as much without being cold,wet and miserable all day long on piece work working to a deadline when there's better jobs out there.
Living away from home in a caravan doesn't appeal either,especially if you have a family living miles away that you may only see at w/ends.
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tim-b
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by tim-b »

Tim-b
There aren't many Brits willing to pick fruit in all weathers whatever the wage when they can earn as much without being cold,wet and miserable all day long on piece work working to a deadline when there's better jobs out there.
It follows that farmers have to move from the free accommodation/low-wage model that they've adopted so that local people can earn more than they would in a factory.
For the record I know of several uni students who would work picking during the summer hols had the farmers not been stuck pre-2016. Talk of not wanting work year-round is just that unless farmers adapt and try so that we get sprouts at Chrimbo

I guess you'd have had labourers in your building days, how did you keep them? I'll wager not through poor pay and living on site in a caravan
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Jdsk
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Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

tim-b wrote: 16 May 2023, 9:09am
Tim-b
There aren't many Brits willing to pick fruit in all weathers whatever the wage when they can earn as much without being cold,wet and miserable all day long on piece work working to a deadline when there's better jobs out there.
It follows that farmers have to move from the free accommodation/low-wage model that they've adopted so that local people can earn more than they would in a factory.
For the record I know of several uni students who would work picking during the summer hols had the farmers not been stuck pre-2016. Talk of not wanting work year-round is just that unless farmers adapt and try so that we get sprouts at Chrimbo
...
My emboldening.

As upthread... there isn't any "have to". They can leave the crops unpicked, as some have done, or abandon production, as some have done.

Jonathan
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