Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

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Jdsk
Posts: 24628
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

"Farmers must “stand their ground” on price inflation and ensure that the rising costs they face are reflected in the prices paid to them by supermarkets for their produce, the UK’s environment, food and rural affairs secretary has demanded."
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ister-says

Jonathan
Jdsk
Posts: 24628
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

"UK government funds HGV driver training to tackle shortages":
https://www.ft.com/content/1a683634-1a1 ... nts-anchor

Jonathan
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

There's one thing worse than paonting your way into a corner and that's to carry on painting... ......do these morons have any idea when to stop?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
francovendee
Posts: 3148
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by francovendee »

Jdsk wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 8:43am "Farmers must “stand their ground” on price inflation and ensure that the rising costs they face are reflected in the prices paid to them by supermarkets for their produce, the UK’s environment, food and rural affairs secretary has demanded."
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ister-says

Jonathan
I heard him say that farmers should demand money from supermarkets for more for their milk and grain.
This man has no idea how powerful supermarkets are and how the producers are squeezed.
The wrong man in the job.
Jdsk
Posts: 24628
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

"The Department for Transport (DfT) has announced that it will continue its relaxation of drivers' hours rules.":
https://news.rha.uk.net/2022/01/11/driv ... ntent.html

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ruary-2022

Jonathan
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by reohn2 »

francovendee wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 8:28am
Jdsk wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 8:43am "Farmers must “stand their ground” on price inflation and ensure that the rising costs they face are reflected in the prices paid to them by supermarkets for their produce, the UK’s environment, food and rural affairs secretary has demanded."
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ister-says

Jonathan
I heard him say that farmers should demand money from supermarkets for more for their milk and grain.
This man has no idea how powerful supermarkets are and how the producers are squeezed.
The wrong man in the job.
My bold

I beg to differ,he most certainly knows that fact very well.
He's playing the populist card trying to look like he's siding with farmers but he's backed a looser because he's clever idiot!
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Jdsk
Posts: 24628
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

Excellent session on today's You and Yours. Someone from a bike shop in Liverpool that sells Giants, and someone from Brompton. Effects on prices and availability. And linked the new Brompton assembly in Sheffield to the desirability of shorter supply chains.

Recommended.

Our reporter Sam Fenwick is talking supply chain issues and how they are pushing up prices. You'll hear from the boss of the bike firm Brompton about how long he expects prices to stay high for consumers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0013hht

Jonathan
francovendee
Posts: 3148
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by francovendee »

It all seems to have gone very quiet about delays at the ports.
Was it all scaremongering or just not being reported?
francovendee
Posts: 3148
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by francovendee »

I guess 4 hours will be acceptable. The emergency truck parking must be almost empty.
Jdsk
Posts: 24628
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Jdsk »

It's bad at the moment, and its going to get worse:
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-21/new ... affic-jams

Jonathan
Psamathe
Posts: 17647
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Psamathe »

Also
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-lorry-queues-dover-eu-b1997993.html wrote:‘Brexit to blame’: Huge lorry queues at Dover as port bosses call for talks on EU checks
Huge lorry queues building up at the Port of Dover have been blamed “entirely” on extra controls which have come into force from Brexit.
Ian
axel_knutt
Posts: 2879
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by axel_knutt »

Jdsk wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 8:43am "Farmers must “stand their ground” on price inflation and ensure that the rising costs they face are reflected in the prices paid to them by supermarkets for their produce, the UK’s environment, food and rural affairs secretary has demanded."
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ister-says

Jonathan
Supermarkets might make popular villains of the piece, but they're not the farmers' enemy.

When productivity increases it enables us to produce more per head of population, so in most markets we just consume more, that's how economic growth makes us all better off. But food isn't like that, because as agricultural productivity increases, each person continues to require the same amount of calories, so it just creates a surplus in the market. A side effect is increased obesity and food waste, but the primary effect is to drive prices down in the short term, and farmers out of business in the longer term. If productivity increases are continual, then the redundancies will be too: 500 years ago it took 58% of the population working the land just to feed everyone, now it's only 1.2%.

So what would happen if your fairy godmother granted your wish and made supermarkets pay the farmers more?
Well there's a food surplus, so by the time the buyers have placed orders for everything the supermarkets can sell (which will now be less, because prices have gone up), there will be some farmers left with no customer. Are they going to just throw in the towel, or are they going to try and win the business by ringing the buyers and offering them a discount? And if they manage to win the business, what are the others who just lost it going to do, if not ring up and offer an even bigger discount? Gradually, prices will just ratchet back down to where they are now, and then stay there unless a shortage develops. Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's solution is to eat it all, but with food waste currently running at about 25%, you'd need about another 22 million starving people to do that. Feed it to the existing population, and they'll all gain weight at the rate of 30kg a year.

The real enemies of the farmers are the other farmers that they have to compete with, not the supermarkets, who also have to compete with other supermarkets.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Psamathe
Posts: 17647
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by Psamathe »

axel_knutt wrote: 22 Jan 2022, 6:03pm
Jdsk wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 8:43am "Farmers must “stand their ground” on price inflation and ensure that the rising costs they face are reflected in the prices paid to them by supermarkets for their produce, the UK’s environment, food and rural affairs secretary has demanded."
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ister-says

Jonathan
Supermarkets might make popular villains of the piece, but they're not the farmers' enemy.

When productivity increases it enables us to produce more per head of population, so in most markets we just consume more, that's how economic growth makes us all better off. But food isn't like that, because as agricultural productivity increases, each person continues to require the same amount of calories, so it just creates a surplus in the market. A side effect is increased obesity and food waste, but the primary effect is to drive prices down in the short term, and farmers out of business in the longer term. If productivity increases are continual, then the redundancies will be too: 500 years ago it took 58% of the population working the land just to feed everyone, now it's only 1.2%.

So what would happen if your fairy godmother granted your wish and made supermarkets pay the farmers more?
Well there's a food surplus, so by the time the buyers have placed orders for everything the supermarkets can sell (which will now be less, because prices have gone up), there will be some farmers left with no customer. Are they going to just throw in the towel, or are they going to try and win the business by ringing the buyers and offering them a discount? And if they manage to win the business, what are the others who just lost it going to do, if not ring up and offer an even bigger discount? Gradually, prices will just ratchet back down to where they are now, and then stay there unless a shortage develops. Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall's solution is to eat it all, but with food waste currently running at about 25%, you'd need about another 22 million starving people to do that. Feed it to the existing population, and they'll all gain weight at the rate of 30kg a year.

The real enemies of the farmers are the other farmers that they have to compete with, not the supermarkets, who also have to compete with other supermarkets.
How much is the situation complicated when UK based farmers are competing against overseas farmers who may have lower costs (e.g. cheaper labour, different tax regimes, etc.).

I'm not "protectionist" but I dislike the carbon based pollution caused by shipping heavy bulky goods long distances. Often the polluter not paying the cost of their pollution so it skews the playing field.

Ian
francovendee
Posts: 3148
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Take These (Supply) Chains from My Heart

Post by francovendee »

Should our attitude to food and it's costs be different from other purchases? Most of us shop around for large purchases but do we do this for food?
Whilst having a reasonable idea of the costs of foodstuffs I don't go between different supermarkets to get the lowest price, I've no need to do this.
For people who are already struggling any small increase is a potential disaster.

Is there such a thing as a cost of things essential to live inflation index?
Things like food, but not restaurant meals, heating, travel to and from work but not things like video games and all optional items
I get the feeling that the increased cost of basic weekly purchases are far higher than the cost of inflation figures just released.
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