Cycling UK Forum

roubaixtuesday wrote: 2 Jan 2024, 11:59am ...
And I see you're now into another of the Brexit fantasies that failed to materialise, the collapse of the EU. Let's have the evidence: list the "many predicting collapse", with a source for the predictions.

Election outcomes in Poland and Spain, and progress on expansion:
viewtopic.php?p=1814632#p1814632

It's looking pretty popular.

Jonathan

Reading die hard Brexit supporters and their views that it has been a great success reminds me of the story of the Emperor's New Clothes.

Flowers... and other plants and animals

"New UK border checks are ‘disaster waiting to happen’, warns flower industry":
https://www.ft.com/content/8c2447fd-9ab ... 71888bf16b

probably paywalled, and discussed here:
https://twitter.com/FT/status/1742841158110171225

I'd put my money on another delay in implementation.

Jonathan

Largely affect the Dutch but lots of flowers and plants come from other parts of the world these days. Probably just another largely unecessary reciprocal impediment to free trade.

Al

al_yrpal wrote: 4 Jan 2024, 11:51am Largely affect the Dutch but lots of flowers and plants come from other parts of the world these days. Probably just another largely unecessary reciprocal impediment to free trade.

Barriers to trade affect both parties. UK government policy is to increase those barriers with our major trading partners. And they know this will have harmful effects, which is why implementation has been delayed ? five times. And why I expect another delay.

Jonathan

al_yrpal wrote: 4 Jan 2024, 11:51am ... just another largely unecessary reciprocal impediment to free trade.

Al

Yes, The Brexit you support has been a disaster for free trade. As predicted.

What should we do about it?

Scrap the EU? Seems to be the main suspect....

Al

al_yrpal wrote: 4 Jan 2024, 12:11pm Scrap the EU? Seems to be the main suspect....

Al

Et voila, this shows just what a bad idea Brexit was. Your only solution to the problems you've caused is to wish reality was different. Seven years after the vote.

The EU exists. Pretending it away is not a solution.

What's your solution, in the real world, to the problems you've caused, which you were warned about before the vote?

Food

"Can broken food supply chains be fixed asks Oxford Farming Conference report":
https://www.ofc.org.uk/blog/ofc-report- ... nce-report

"UK farmers say tighter environmental rules put them at risk of being undercut":
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... g-undercut

Jonathan

The EU is the source of the problems, its whole mantra is protectionism and anti free trade worldwide. It needs drastic change. It is corrupt, a mechanism to avoid the strictures imposed by the Dmark.

Al

al_yrpal wrote: 4 Jan 2024, 11:51am Largely affect the Dutch but lots of flowers and plants come from other parts of the world these days.
Al

Not directly they don't. A huge proportion flowers, along with fruit and veg, comes to the UK via the Netherlands.

al_yrpal wrote: 4 Jan 2024, 12:58pm The EU is the source of the problems, its whole mantra is protectionism and anti free trade worldwide.
Al

Those exact same points where made by Tony Benn and the left before the referendum to join. What both the left and right fail to explain is how the UK co-exists outside that protectionist group. The socialists can't accept anything that isn't internationalism and the right are deluded that we're big and powerful enough not to be pushed around. The pragmatists understand it's playground stuff, you're either in the bullying gang or you're going to be bullied, those who chose the latter ought to stop whinging about it.

al_yrpal wrote: 4 Jan 2024, 12:58pm The EU is the source of the problems, its whole mantra is protectionism and anti free trade worldwide. It needs drastic change. It is corrupt, a mechanism to avoid the strictures imposed by the Dmark.

Al

Entirely aside as to whether you viewpoint of the EU is accurate, "It needs to change" is not a solution. Particularly as we've left, so can't influence it!

Your preferred solution of Brexit has made this problem worse for the UK, not better as was promised.

What is your solution, in a real world where the EU exists?

The EU made our exit as difficult as possible in order to disuade others. They continue to be as awkward towards the UK as possible. Any country in the Euro is stuffed as far as exiting the EU is concerned.

There are increasing signs of dissonance emerging. Hopefully it portends future collapse. Even the Germans are realising at last...

Al

al_yrpal wrote: 4 Jan 2024, 4:21pm The EU made our exit as difficult as possible in order to disuade others. They continue to be as awkward towards the UK as possible. Any country in the Euro is stuffed as far as exiting the EU is concerned.

There are increasing signs of dissonance emerging. Hopefully it portends future collapse. Even the Germans are realising at last...

Al

So you agree Brexit made things worse for us, rather than better, as promised, and your solution to this is to hope for the collapse of the EU?

A better exemplar of how ideology prevents sensible policy could hardly be imagined.

Brexit has failed. The EU exists. We need to address these realities sensibly and rationally, not engage in ideological fantasy.