Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

[Psamathe]

.....My reasons for posting are that I am against compulsory vaccination for reasons I have given.

What do you mean by "compulsory vaccination?". Do you mean people being forcibly dragged off to vaccination centres and having needled in their arms as they scream and struggle? or fines for unvaccinated? or strict lockdowns for unvaccinated? or enhanced restrictions for unvaccinated (e.g. no bars or restaurants or football spectating, etc.)?

It's a question of degree.

Reason I'm not allowed to drive when I'm full of alcohol is largely to protect other members of society - it's not an infringement of my human rights it's about me representing a greater risk to others when pissed out of my brains driving. I still represent a risk when I'm completely sober but less than at the end of a heavy drinking session.

Ian

[PDQ Mobile]

.....My reasons for posting are that I am against compulsory vaccination for reasons I have given.

What do you mean by "compulsory vaccination?". Do you mean people being forcibly dragged off to vaccination centres and having needled in their arms as they scream and struggle? or fines for unvaccinated? or strict lockdowns for unvaccinated? or enhanced restrictions for unvaccinated (e.g. no bars or restaurants or football spectating, etc.)?

It's a question of degree.

Reason I'm not allowed to drive when I'm full of alcohol is largely to protect other members of society - it's not an infringement of my human rights it's about me representing a greater risk to others when pissed out of my brains driving. I still represent a risk when I'm completely sober but less than at the end of a heavy drinking session.

Ian

It IS a question of degree.

Certainly none of the first few.
No fines etc.
Totally against that.

As for limiting access to busy venues etc I am not sure.


Today the Guardian livefeed (it's there now but be quick because those live things are not always archived) reports 10% of London hospital staff are not vaccinated.
Do you not think that rather strange?

The point is that on the one hand this small percent are being portrayed as a threat to wider society and on the other fully vaccinated are portrayed as "safe".
I don't think that bears much scrutiny.

There's other stuff, like our very high UK death rates (only Peru worse?) compared to some other places in the World with far less vaccination rates.
You can argue the reasons for that, but it's there.

If someone looks at those things and decides in all calm reflection that vaccination is not for them, then I am happy not to condemn them.

[slowster]

There's other stuff, like our very high UK death rates (only Peru worse?) compared to some other places in the World with far less vaccination rates.
You can argue the reasons for that, but it's there.

The UK's high Covid mortality rate is overwhelmingly due to deaths before the vaccines were developed and before significant numbers of people had been vaccinated.

[Jdsk]

Today the Guardian livefeed (it's there now but be quick because those live things are not always archived) reports 10% of London hospital staff are not vaccinated.
Do you not think that rather strange?

I'm disappointed but I don't find it surprising or strange.

Why do you think that it's strange, please? Are you hinting that they have some professional knowledge that the vaccine doesn't work, which isn't available to the rest of us?

Thanks

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

The point is that on the one hand this small percent are being portrayed as a threat to wider society and on the other fully vaccinated are portrayed as "safe".

Where are you seeing that, please?

Most of the reporting of this is reasonably responsible. That includes discussing an intervention that benefits the recipient, the rest of the population, and the healthcare system and current and future patients. And that intervention is cheap and simple and feasible.

Jonathan

[slowster]

10% of London hospital staff are not vaccinated.
Do you not think that rather strange?

The point is that on the one hand this small percent are being portrayed as a threat to wider society and on the other fully vaccinated are portrayed as "safe".
I don't think that bears much scrutiny.

The threat in question is not to wider society, but to the patients with whom they will be dealing - especially patients whose health conditions make them extremely vulnerable to covid infection and death. Very many of those admitted to hospital with Covid despite being vaccinated are immuno-compromised.

Vaccine uptake among hospital staff is significantly higher than among the general population, 83% of whom have received a second dose. Your use of the word 'strange' appears to be deliberately insinuating something about the effectiveness of vaccines and/or that those hospital staff must know something we don't. You have repeatedly misrepresented statistics on this and other Covid threads, and sought to question the effectiveness of vaccines. You have also repeatedly used rhetorical devices to insinuate that vaccines are not effective, and your use of the word 'strange' with the connotations it carries is an example of that.

[PDQ Mobile]

Today the Guardian livefeed (it's there now but be quick because those live things are not always archived) reports 10% of London hospital staff are not vaccinated.
Do you not think that rather strange?

I'm disappointed but I don't find it surprising or strange.

Why don't you find it strange or surprising, please?

[PDQ Mobile]

The point is that on the one hand this small percent are being portrayed as a threat to wider society and on the other fully vaccinated are portrayed as "safe".

Where are you seeing that, please?

Most of the reporting of this is reasonably responsible. That includes discussing an intervention that benefits the recipient, the rest of the population, and the healthcare system and current and future patients. And that intervention is cheap and simple and feasible.

Jonathan

On here- compared with drink drivers for just one example.
You must live a sheltered life.

[Jdsk]

Today the Guardian livefeed (it's there now but be quick because those live things are not always archived) reports 10% of London hospital staff are not vaccinated.
Do you not think that rather strange?

I'm disappointed but I don't find it surprising or strange.

Why don't you find it strange or surprising, please?

I'd expect some hospital staff to have the same concerns as other people. Some frightened of the effects, some frightened of the needle, some haven't got organised to get vaccinated, some think it's a conspiracy.

But you raised the question. Presumably there was a reason that you did. What was the reason, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

The point is that on the one hand this small percent are being portrayed as a threat to wider society and on the other fully vaccinated are portrayed as "safe".

Where are you seeing that, please?

Most of the reporting of this is reasonably responsible. That includes discussing an intervention that benefits the recipient, the rest of the population, and the healthcare system and current and future patients. And that intervention is cheap and simple and feasible.

On here- compared with drink drivers for just one example.

I don't recall anyone here saying that being fully vaccinated made anyone safe. Please could you point to some examples of that.

Thanks

Jonathan

[PDQ Mobile]

^^
Slowster
I object to your use of insinuating.
I am not insinuating anything at all.

I simply find it strange that a group of educated front line staff should so chose.
And I wonder why.

There is more extensive piece on the BEEB now including an ICU doctor who prefers not to be vaccinated.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59927306

[PDQ Mobile]

Where are you seeing that, please?

Most of the reporting of this is reasonably responsible. That includes discussing an intervention that benefits the recipient, the rest of the population, and the healthcare system and current and future patients. And that intervention is cheap and simple and feasible.

On here- compared with drink drivers for just one example.

I don't recall anyone here saying that being fully vaccinated made anyone safe. Please could you point to some examples of that.

Thanks

Jonathan

Better not bother having it then!

...
Do me a favour and actually answer some of the questions I put to you earlier about your own personal stance on compulsion.

That is basis for further discussion.

You are too selective in your quotes.
Quote all or nothing. Please.

I answer, where I can, your points.
There are a personal standpoint that I try to give my genuine reasons for.

[Jdsk]

On here- compared with drink drivers for just one example.

I don't recall anyone here saying that being fully vaccinated made anyone safe. Please could you point to some examples of that.

Better not bother having it then!

No examples of anyone here saying it, then? Sounds like a straw man argument.

Vaccination reduces the chance of infection, severe illness, hospitalisation, death, and transmission to other people. Those are all quantitative not absolute effects. It doesn't make anyone "safe". Only a lot safer.

Jonathan

[PDQ Mobile]

I don't recall anyone here saying that being fully vaccinated made anyone safe. Please could you point to some examples of that.

Better not bother having it then!

No examples of anyone here saying it, then? Sounds like a straw man argument.

Vaccination reduces the chance of infection, severe illness, hospitalisation, death, and transmission to other people. Those are all quantitative not absolute effects. It doesn't make anyone "safe". Only a lot safer.

Jonathan

I'll remember to only use " a lot safer" in future then.
Sometimes I do wonder!!

How about on the other side of the coin unvaccinated being compared to drink drivers?
Or speeders.

You did not comment about that.

[mjr]

^^
Slowster
I object to your use of insinuating.
I am not insinuating anything at all.

I simply find it strange that a group of educated front line staff should so chose.
And I wonder why.

"London hospital staff" is probably not only people with medical education. It may well include a lot of clerical and manual workers who are vulnerable to the same sort of misinformation and misdirection as many others.