Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by Psamathe »

Jdsk wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 5:48pm
thirdcrank wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 5:20pm ...
I'd not count on being able to see our GP if there were complications, but that's based on gossip etc, rather than a scientific survey
The latest figures for England are for August 2022:
https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-informa ... l-practice

There were about 27 M appointments in general practice, that's about 1 M each day.

About 45% took place on the same day that they were booked.

We're now identifying the harm that was done during the outbreak from the belief that care wasn't available. Gossip was probably responsible for a considerable fraction of that harm.

Jonathan
My own experience (with practice I'm registered with) is that many appointments are handled by "Practitioners" (in my practice case, ex-paramedics). They seem able to make referrals to consultants, request X-rays, etc.

As the country gets more and more desperate for GPs it is one way the Gov. might be able to up appointment numbers. Personally I'm happy to see whoever they deem appropriate but the practice menu system specifically says that you will be seen by somebody appropriate to your condition (as classified by reception) so I have the suspicion some people might be a bit fussy about the title of the person they are seeing.

Ian
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by Jdsk »

Psamathe wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 6:04pm
Jdsk wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 5:48pm
thirdcrank wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 5:20pm ...
I'd not count on being able to see our GP if there were complications, but that's based on gossip etc, rather than a scientific survey
The latest figures for England are for August 2022:
https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-informa ... l-practice

There were about 27 M appointments in general practice, that's about 1 M each day.

About 45% took place on the same day that they were booked.

We're now identifying the harm that was done during the outbreak from the belief that care wasn't available. Gossip was probably responsible for a considerable fraction of that harm.
My own experience (with practice I'm registered with) is that many appointments are handled by "Practitioners" (in my practice case, ex-paramedics). They seem able to make referrals to consultants, request X-rays, etc.

As the country gets more and more desperate for GPs it is one way the Gov. might be able to up appointment numbers. Personally I'm happy to see whoever they deem appropriate but the practice menu system specifically says that you will be seen by somebody appropriate to your condition (as classified by reception) so I have the suspicion some people might be a bit fussy about the title of the person they are seeing.
"47.7% of all appointments in July were carried out by a GP and 21.1% were carried out by nurses."
Same source.

Using other practitioners in primary care is part of the current "plan" to address the shortage.

There are some strengths in this and a lot of weaknesses.

It's an important development. Perhaps another thread would be a better place for me to express my concerns?

Jonathan
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by thirdcrank »

I know the NHS handles zillions of cases daily. I'm not confident that somebody who became concerned about something of the type we are discussing would inevitably get a prompt face-to-face appointment with a GP who would inspect the source of their concern.
======================================================
PS I only posted on this thread to try to answer ANTONISH's query about reactions to a covid injection.
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by Psamathe »

thirdcrank wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 6:29pm I know the NHS handles zillions of cases daily. I'm not confident that somebody who became concerned about something of the type we are discussing would inevitably get a prompt face-to-face appointment with a GP who would inspect the source of their concern.
With my own practice it's either same day or forget it. A friend locally is now having real problems walking because his knee needs replacing but he can't even get a routine GP practice appointment to get a referral to get on the long waiting list. For a routine appointment they tell you to call back next week when some appointments will be released but call back and they've gone.

Ian
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by Jdsk »

thirdcrank wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 6:29pm I know the NHS handles zillions of cases daily. I'm not confident that somebody who became concerned about something of the type we are discussing would inevitably get a prompt face-to-face appointment with a GP who would inspect the source of their concern.
That's why I recommended talking to your GP rather than a prompt face-to-face appointment.

Jonathan
ANTONISH
Posts: 2967
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 9:49am

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by ANTONISH »

Jdsk wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 6:36pm
thirdcrank wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 6:29pm I know the NHS handles zillions of cases daily. I'm not confident that somebody who became concerned about something of the type we are discussing would inevitably get a prompt face-to-face appointment with a GP who would inspect the source of their concern.
That's why I recommended talking to your GP rather than a prompt face-to-face appointment.

Jonathan
Which is good advice but IME getting to see a GP is unlikely. I have had phone appointments with a GP ( they all change ) but it involves a wait of a couple of weeks ( even so I initially had to explain to the receptionist why I wanted an appointment which I found strange - does the receptionist act as some sort of online triage nurse?)

My partner was suffering from a painful gynaecological problem and could only get telephone appointments - in desperation she went to A&E
and was properly examined and put on a list for surgery - her telephone appointments had ended in a prescription for a tube of some cream.

I'm aware that the NHS is under a lot of strain.
I just hope things improve.
Jdsk
Posts: 24639
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by Jdsk »

For bruising after immunisation it would probably be as clinically effective for the initial consultation to be remote as to be face-to-face. It might need video or some photos by email.

Jonathan

PS: I'm happy to discuss triage and remote consultation in primary care, but as above... would it be better in another thread?
jois
Posts: 334
Joined: 22 Sep 2022, 12:29pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by jois »

ANTONISH wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 10:03am
Jdsk wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 6:36pm
thirdcrank wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 6:29pm I know the NHS handles zillions of cases daily. I'm not confident that somebody who became concerned about something of the type we are discussing would inevitably get a prompt face-to-face appointment with a GP who would inspect the source of their concern.
That's why I recommended talking to your GP rather than a prompt face-to-face appointment.

Jonathan
Which is good advice but IME getting to see a GP is unlikely. I have had phone appointments with a GP ( they all change ) but it involves a wait of a couple of weeks ( even so I initially had to explain to the receptionist why I wanted an appointment which I found strange - does the receptionist act as some sort of online triage nurse?)

My partner was suffering from a painful gynaecological problem and could only get telephone appointments - in desperation she went to A&E
and was properly examined and put on a list for surgery - her telephone appointments had ended in a prescription for a tube of some cream.

I'm aware that the NHS is under a lot of strain.
I just hope things improve.
Yes that's exactly what they are doing, just as you have to convince a receptionist you need the police or an ambulance to make a speedy journey to you. They have key phases they are trained to priorities, if you know what they are or can take a good guess at them your likely to get to the head of the queue.

Saying the pain is so bad she is considering suicide gets you a prompt appointment .

But then there are also walk in centres, where you get to see a nurse usualy, with in a hour. They don't seem at all well used.
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by Psamathe »

ANTONISH wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 10:03am
Jdsk wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 6:36pm
thirdcrank wrote: 1 Oct 2022, 6:29pm I know the NHS handles zillions of cases daily. I'm not confident that somebody who became concerned about something of the type we are discussing would inevitably get a prompt face-to-face appointment with a GP who would inspect the source of their concern.
That's why I recommended talking to your GP rather than a prompt face-to-face appointment.

Jonathan
.. even so I initially had to explain to the receptionist why I wanted an appointment which I found strange - does the receptionist act as some sort of online triage nurse?...
In practice I registered with, yes. Reception decide if your condition warrants a same day appointment or a routine appointment. They also decide (for both same day and routine appointments) who you should see i.e. GP or Practitioner or nurse or other specialties (e.g. weekly attendance at practice by physio triage nurse).

Ian
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by Psamathe »

jois wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 10:37am ....
Saying the pain is so bad she is considering suicide gets you a prompt appointment .
...
We generally want medics to correctly diagnose and treat our ailments. For that they need accurate reporting of symptoms. We get angry when conditions are misdiagnosed and the wrong treatment given but medics don't stand a chance if they are not given the real descriptions of what's wrong.

Ian
jois
Posts: 334
Joined: 22 Sep 2022, 12:29pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by jois »

Psamathe wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 3:42pm
jois wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 10:37am ....
Saying the pain is so bad she is considering suicide gets you a prompt appointment .
...
We generally want medics to correctly diagnose and treat our ailments. For that they need accurate reporting of symptoms. We get angry when conditions are misdiagnosed and the wrong treatment given but medics don't stand a chance if they are not given the real descriptions of what's wrong.

Ian
It's the receptionist your talking to not a medic and the medics do nothing at all if you can't get to talk to them.
First get through the door then worry about how factual you are being

Having a system were only key phrases get to see a medic is distinctly unsatisfactory if you end up dieing as you down played your symptoms in a stoic British way
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11010
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by Bonefishblues »

jois wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 3:57pm
Psamathe wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 3:42pm
jois wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 10:37am ....
Saying the pain is so bad she is considering suicide gets you a prompt appointment .
...
We generally want medics to correctly diagnose and treat our ailments. For that they need accurate reporting of symptoms. We get angry when conditions are misdiagnosed and the wrong treatment given but medics don't stand a chance if they are not given the real descriptions of what's wrong.

Ian
It's the receptionist your talking to not a medic and the medics do nothing at all if you can't get to talk to them.
First get through the door then worry about how factual you are being

Having a system were only key phrases get to see a medic is distinctly unsatisfactory if you end up dieing as you down played your symptoms in a stoic British way
Equally, I would get pretty upset if I thought people were gaming the system to get in before me, who had accurately described his symptoms. Ultimately, it's built on trust and integrity.
jois
Posts: 334
Joined: 22 Sep 2022, 12:29pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by jois »

Bonefishblues wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 4:02pm
jois wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 3:57pm
Psamathe wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 3:42pm
We generally want medics to correctly diagnose and treat our ailments. For that they need accurate reporting of symptoms. We get angry when conditions are misdiagnosed and the wrong treatment given but medics don't stand a chance if they are not given the real descriptions of what's wrong.

Ian
It's the receptionist your talking to not a medic and the medics do nothing at all if you can't get to talk to them.
First get through the door then worry about how factual you are being

Having a system were only key phrases get to see a medic is distinctly unsatisfactory if you end up dieing as you down played your symptoms in a stoic British way
Equally, I would get pretty upset if I thought people were gaming the system to get in before me, who had accurately described his symptoms. Ultimately, it's built on trust and integrity.
That's a luxury you may have, you sit there and feel the virtue whilst other people get the medical care you paid for, either by blind luck or by understanding the system.

I don't do it for myself, I haven't been near a doctor's on my own account since 1981 , don't trust them as far as I can throw them, which isn far these days, really I'm just never ill, I wasn't ill in 1981either, I just wanted a sick note

I did go for diet advice once or twice but that was a waste of time
Last edited by jois on 3 Oct 2022, 4:27pm, edited 5 times in total.
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by Psamathe »

Bonefishblues wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 4:02pm
jois wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 3:57pm
Psamathe wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 3:42pm
We generally want medics to correctly diagnose and treat our ailments. For that they need accurate reporting of symptoms. We get angry when conditions are misdiagnosed and the wrong treatment given but medics don't stand a chance if they are not given the real descriptions of what's wrong.

Ian
It's the receptionist your talking to not a medic and the medics do nothing at all if you can't get to talk to them.
First get through the door then worry about how factual you are being

Having a system were only key phrases get to see a medic is distinctly unsatisfactory if you end up dieing as you down played your symptoms in a stoic British way
Equally, I would get pretty upset if I thought people were gaming the system to get in before me, who had accurately described his symptoms. Ultimately, it's built on trust and integrity.
Plus Reception do record your broad symptoms for the medic. I've walked into GP office for appointment and he's straight away asking for more details about what I haven't told him is wrong (but I did tell Reception).

Had a telephone consultation this morning and immediately after the "What's your date of birth?" the nurse was asking for details, specific question before I'd even said anything (beyond my date of birth).

In the past being accurate with reception has massively helped me. The case I'm thinking of was Tennis Elbow & Golfers Elbow (same time, same elbow) and I couldn't really use the arm much and I'd assumed I'd need a GP who'd then make a referral to somewhere. But Reception classified it and "diverted" me to a specialist physio primary practitioner visiting the next day, she confirmed diagnosis and at the appointment referred me and booked an appointment with next level specialist 10 miles away.

Earlier this year I got shingles. I had no idea what it was so called for GP appointment. Reception recorded symptoms, half an hour later practitioner texted me "Sounds like shingles, please submit photo to <url>" and 30 mins later called, "yes it's shingles" and and by afternoon they'd delivered me the anti-viral pills.

It works and does not need "gaming".

Ian
Bonefishblues
Posts: 11010
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Covid Booster. Yes/No? *** The Covid Thread ***

Post by Bonefishblues »

jois wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 4:15pm
Bonefishblues wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 4:02pm
jois wrote: 3 Oct 2022, 3:57pm

It's the receptionist your talking to not a medic and the medics do nothing at all if you can't get to talk to them.
First get through the door then worry about how factual you are being

Having a system were only key phrases get to see a medic is distinctly unsatisfactory if you end up dieing as you down played your symptoms in a stoic British way
Equally, I would get pretty upset if I thought people were gaming the system to get in before me, who had accurately described his symptoms. Ultimately, it's built on trust and integrity.
That's a luxury you may have, you sit there and feel the virtue whilst other people get the medical care you paid for, either by blind luck or by understanding the system.

I don't do it for myself, I haven't been near a doctor's on my own account since 1981 , don't trust them as far as I can throw them, which isn far these days, really I'm just never ill, I wasn't ill in 1981either, I just wanted a sick note

I did go for diet advice once or twice but that was a waste of time
The system works because of people like me and the overwhelming majority of others, and despite people who give/take advice like yours.
Post Reply