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I think until they found the right stick to beat him with, they were terrified, this idea that he was an easy opponent disregards how close he came to winning the 2017 election.Carlton green wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 8:36am How pleased were the Tories that Corbyn get to be the Labour leader? They were delighted and some even paid their money to be allowed to vote Corbyn in. You just couldn’t make up ...
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Agreed,I've mentioned it once on this thread.PH wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 10:31amI think until they found the right stick to beat him with, they were terrified, this idea that he was an easy opponent disregards how close he came to winning the 2017 election.Carlton green wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 8:36am How pleased were the Tories that Corbyn get to be the Labour leader? They were delighted and some even paid their money to be allowed to vote Corbyn in. You just couldn’t make up ...
Thanks for the spade workJdsk wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 10:37am Post by al_yrpal » 24 Jul 2021, 7:48pm
I dont have a chosen news scource. If you read and listen to lots you can get the gist and make up your own mind. I do like the irreverance of the Daily Star though. Apparently I have read over 300 Groaniand articles this year and remain largely unaffected.
Post by al_yrpal » 25 Jul 2021, 12:52pm
Personally I just read news in newspapers...
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Jonathan
And it wasn't a very clever thing to do. At the next election the Labour majority slipped from 146 seats to just 5. Harold Laski, the Labour politician and theorist reckoned Bevan's 'vermin' comment cost the Labour party 2 million votes. Bevan actually described the Tory party as vermin - not necessarily Tory voters - but that's a nicety too far. If you call or imply people who have voted Conservative in the past 'scum' or 'lower than vermin' then you're going to lose votes. I bet Cameron regretted his comments about UKIP voters too - and Rayner needs to be careful. She can't, by implication, insult swathes of the electorate and expect to win.Mike Sales wrote: ↑27 Sep 2021, 6:09pm I have just stumbled across a little book, my copy of Aneurin Bevan's Why Not Trust The Tories?, writing as Celticus in 1944.
You may remember that he called the Tories "lower than vermin."
Well, all I see is the Newspaper headlines on the BBC News app. I dont count that, as like the Daily Stars headlines on Aliens, they obviously belong to a section of the Labour Party. I admit I have occasionally succumbed to Groaniard clickbate which seems to be inescapeable. I never buy newspapers and am not influenced by them.reohn2 wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 10:45amThanks for the spade workJdsk wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 10:37am Post by al_yrpal » 24 Jul 2021, 7:48pm
I dont have a chosen news scource. If you read and listen to lots you can get the gist and make up your own mind. I do like the irreverance of the Daily Star though. Apparently I have read over 300 Groaniand articles this year and remain largely unaffected.
Post by al_yrpal » 25 Jul 2021, 12:52pm
Personally I just read news in newspapers...
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Jonathan
My emboldening.al_yrpal wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 11:35am Well, all I see is the Newspaper headlines on the BBC News app. I dont count that, as like the Daily Stars headlines on Aliens, they obviously belong to a section of the Labour Party. I admit I have occasionally succumbed to Groaniard clickbate which seems to be inescapeable. I never buy newspapers and am not influenced by them.
Don't think the Tories were delighted after the 2017 general election. The only people more disappointed with Corbyn's strong showing were the Blairite MPs and their friends at Labour Party HQ.Carlton green wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 8:36am‘They’, the hard left, will argue about stuff indefinitely, however Starmer does seem to have a bit of ‘common sense’ and pragmatism. Starmer understands that being in power is more helpful to Labour voters than being an unelected ‘party of protest’. IMHO Raynor is an absolute gift to the Tories, how pleased they must be to hear her shout her mouth off ‘cause (far too much of) what she says just provides them with ammunition.al_yrpal wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 8:04amIt all echos of the Red Robbo/Scargill/Skinner/Corbyn school of non politics. All loud mouthed aggressive bully boys as recently nicely demonstrated by Raynor. Many people clearly remember that time and wont vote for that sort of politics again. Foot recently shot in...Carlton green wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 7:45am Seems like here we are again with comments so impassioned and forthright as to be just aggressive to those that don’t hold identical views. I’m totally puzzled why anyone would think such discourse constructive, indeed I find it the opposite.
Al
How pleased were the Tories that Corbyn get to be the Labour leader? They were delighted and some even paid their money to be allowed to vote Corbyn in. You just couldn’t make up ...
Why would he do that? It's generally reckoned that if we went down the PR route the Labour Party would split into at least three parties but the Conservatives less likely to do so (the major faultline may already have been exposed by the UKIP and Brexit parties). I'm sure Labour would be in power again as the majority party in a coalition but it would never be a 'big beast' again.Carlton green wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 10:19pm Starmer will have his work cut out to win the next election, maybe a step too far, but I’d be very surprised if he didn’t slash the Tory majority. If he does win then one of the first things that he should do is to seek to change the voting system from first past the post to something that’s more democratic.
In 2010 I was voting to keep the Tories out of Number 10. The nation was in a bad state but I felt that the Tories would find a worse "solution" than a Labour-led government. In my constituency the way to keep the Tories out is to vote Labour, but in many constituencies the way to keep the Tories out is to vote Lib Dem. If I had voted Lib Dem I would have felt betrayed and conned when they put a Tory in the top seat. I would not have voted for them if I had suspected they would do that. That is why they paid a big price for that later on. And that is the problem with PR. It ends up in dirty deals done late at night in private, resulting in distortions every bit as big as those that come from FPTP. You just get the distortions later in the process, and the process takes longer.Ben@Forest wrote: ↑1 Oct 2021, 8:07amWhy would he do that? It's generally reckoned that if we went down the PR route the Labour Party would split into at least three parties but the Conservatives less likely to do so (the major faultline may already have been exposed by the UKIP and Brexit parties). I'm sure Labour would be in power again as the majority party in a coalition but it would never be a 'big beast' again.Carlton green wrote: ↑30 Sep 2021, 10:19pm Starmer will have his work cut out to win the next election, maybe a step too far, but I’d be very surprised if he didn’t slash the Tory majority. If he does win then one of the first things that he should do is to seek to change the voting system from first past the post to something that’s more democratic.
I'm not saying I disagree with PR - I would support it, but politics here seems to be so incredibly tribal and unforgiving of pragmatism (look at the way the LDs were treated after a surprisingly successful stint in coalition with the Conservatives) that the electorate would need to change its mindset. In Germany the equivalent of the Labour party has just won the general election after years of being in coalition with..... the Conservatives.
Absolutely John.Oldjohnw wrote: ↑1 Oct 2021, 8:34am ...............
The current and previous PMs had no clue. May had a couple of meaningless slogans, “The Brexit people voted for” and “No deal is better than a bad deal”. Johnson’s was, “Make Brexit happen”. Both meaningless utterances of complete idiocy, self inflicted wounds and nation destroying lunacy.
