Drink driving et cetera - When is enough enough ?

[merseymouth]

So, when you get a bent copper and a drunken incompetent lawyer involved in the same incident it gets funny!
I dealt with both, try not to get on the wrong side of me .
Good and bad in both occupations, sadly. MM

[kylecycler]

I'm not sure your use of 'corrupt' is justified in that scenario.

I'm not sure either - I think I picked thirdcrank up wrong. I should stress I've no personal experience of lawyers except for one who was Power of Attorney for my mother and he was one of the straightest characters, quite possibly the straightest, I've ever encountered in my life.

[kylecycler]

.... Lawyers can be a corrupt bunch - there's always a loophole, isn't there? I expect it must have frustrated the hell out of you sometimes, as a police officer, although I suppose lawyers can be clever the other way too. ....

If any lawyers frustrated me, they tended to be the local authority solicitors who conducted some of the police prosecutions prior to the formation of the CPS. I understand the basic workings of the criminal justice system quite well and I can see we are stuck with it for the foreseeable. I think the problem many people have is the difference between establishing guilt and establishing what happened. AFAIK, the jurisdictions relying on the former tend to have the most severe punishments (eg US) and in the latter the general public seem more relaxed (eg much of Europe)

My comments on the CJ system (criminal justice, not Chris Juden) are intended to give a layman's explanation, as in this case.
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PS I can't speak for everybody but during my career my relationships with most lawyers - mainly solicitors - I came into contact with were perfectly cordial. The odd occasions when I fell out with solicitors tended to be when somebody recently qualified tried to get clever - but that seemed to be a sign of inexperience.

That's quite reassuring. Fairly sure you'd have thought that lawyer I wrote about at the driving instructors' conference was a right piece of work, though!

[thirdcrank]

Obviously, I can't comment on somebody I've not met but really lawyers can only apply the law. I'm not so naïve as to think no lawyers are crooks, but I've not knowingly met any.

[Bonefishblues]

Obviously, I can't comment on somebody I've not met but really lawyers can only apply the law. I'm not so naïve as to think no lawyers are crooks, but I've not knowingly met any.

As opposed to lawyers who've knowingly met lots of crooks

[Psamathe]

How practical is tagging and curfew in these circumstances and how "constrained" can one get restricting somebody e.g. must be at home 18:00 to 08:00 (monitored by a tag) and no "gatherings"/parties at home (e.g. max. 2 visitors) to avoid all-night parties moving from clubs to home. Maybe even spot checks for drugs ... (but that starts requiring resource for verification and a lot of other demands on resource and it's probably better spent elsewhere?)

Of course it does not stop somebody way over any limits from driving somebody else's car but without the partying, concerns over spot checks, etc. it must lower the risk of offending and danger to others.

Ian

[thirdcrank]

As opposed to lawyers who've knowingly met lots of crooks

I've met loads of people who might be termed crooks and some were thoroughly evil but most were pretty normal.

[pete75]

Obviously, I can't comment on somebody I've not met but really lawyers can only apply the law. I'm not so naïve as to think no lawyers are crooks, but I've not knowingly met any.

As opposed to lawyers who've knowingly met lots of crooks

Almost all police officers have knowingly met lots of crooks too.

[Oldjohnw]

There are some criminal lawyers.

[Jdsk]

The only way I can see this being sorted is through technology - to tag someone in such a way that they can't get behind the wheel of a vehicle and drive it, but I'm not sure intelligent enough technology exists yet or has been developed.

How practical is tagging and curfew in these circumstances and how "constrained" can one get restricting somebody e.g. must be at home 18:00 to 08:00 (monitored by a tag) and no "gatherings"/parties at home (e.g. max. 2 visitors) to avoid all-night parties moving from clubs to home. Maybe even spot checks for drugs ... (but that starts requiring resource for verification and a lot of other demands on resource and it's probably better spent elsewhere?)

Of course it does not stop somebody way over any limits from driving somebody else's car but without the partying, concerns over spot checks, etc. it must lower the risk of offending and danger to others.

It's possible but it won't be infallible. And you could spend a lot on it and still be lower than the massive cost of incarceration.

The sooner we make that a major part of of our response the better.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Hi,
This is just surfaced on the news.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/16275437/ ... ing-carl/y
"Katie Price has been charged with driving while disqualified following her alleged drink-drug car smash this week.

Emergency services rushed to the scene at around 6.30am yesterday and arrested the 43-year-old reality star for alleged drink and drug-driving.

Sources told The Sun she had "stayed up all night partying with a few close friends" before rolling her BMW.

Meanwhile her family shared a message saying their "worst fears nearly came true" in her alleged "drink-drive" crash, adding "we have for some time been concerned about Kate's wellbeing and overall mental health.

"Today our worst fears nearly came true. As a family we have been and will continue to help Kate get the help she needs..."We hope that she will realise that she cannot battle her issues alone," they wrote on Instagram"

I'll seem to remember that this person has a previous history.
When should constant drink driving and receiving bans finally mean Enough is enough?
The latest escapade yesterday landed the driver in hospital!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Price

"Driving
In October 2003 charges of speeding were dropped against Price when police failed to arrest her for the offence in the statutory time limit of 12 weeks.[79]

In June 2008, Price was convicted of driving while using a mobile phone in April 2008; she received three points on her driving licence.[80] In July 2010, Price was convicted in her absence for speeding in September 2009.[81]

In 2009 charges of speeding and failing to supply information about who was driving, against Price were dropped due to prosecutorial errors in the collection of the evidence against her.[82] In July 2010 Price was convicted in her absence for speeding in September 2009. She was fined £250 and £500 prosecution costs; Price claimed she was "being hounded by Papparazzi" which was rejected by magistrates.[81] In September 2010 Price was given three points after being convicted for failing to be in proper control of a vehicle in February 2010 that year and fined £1,000, £650 court costs, and a £15 victim surcharge.[83] In December 2010 Price was banned from driving for six months by Crawley Magistrates court for accumulating 13 points on her driving licence after being given an additional three points on her licence for speeding in Pyecombe, West Sussex in December 2009.[84]

In April 2012 Price won an appeal against a conviction for two counts of failing to give information regarding a driver's identity regarding speeding tickets issued to her relating to offences in London in 2011. Price argued she had not seen the tickets as she did not open her own post.[85] In July 2015 Price was convicted of failing to stop at a red light at Buck Barn in West Sussex. Price was given three points and fined £700, costs of £450 and a victim surcharge of £70.[86] In February 2018 Price was banned from driving for six months under totting up of points on her licence. In July 2018 Price reported herself to the police for driving while disqualified.[87]

In January 2019, Price was disqualified from driving for three months after breaching the conditions of a previous driving ban in July 2018 and given an additional six points on her licence,[88] and the following month was banned from driving for a further three months after her blood alcohol level was tested as being near twice the legal limit while in charge of a vehicle. Price had been found by police in the backseat of a vehicle in August 2018 after it had crashed. Price was ordered to pay £2,425 in costs and fines. Charges of being drunk in charge of a vehicle were dropped due to a lack of evidence.[89] In October 2019 Price was convicted of failing to provide details of the driver of the vehicle involved, relating to the crash in August 2018, she received six points, was fined £440, £144 in costs and was banned for two years.[citation needed] Later in 2019 Price received a fourth driving ban within two years, she appealed and the ban was reduced to 18 months in December 2019.[90][91][92]

On 28 September 2021 it was reported that Price had been rushed to hospital after a 'drink-drive' crash near Partridge Green. A spokesman for Sussex Police said officers had responded to reports of a single-vehicle collision on the B2135 near Partridge Green around 6.20am: "A woman, 43, was arrested on suspicion of driving while above the legal limit for alcohol and drugs, and has been taken to hospital to be checked over."

The former model Katie Price has received a 16-week suspended jail sentence and been banned from driving for two years after she admitted drink-driving while disqualified and without insurance after a crash near her home in Sussex.
...
After the collision, Price told police: “I took drugs, I should not be driving, I admit it all.”
...
As well as a suspended sentence and driving ban, Price was also given 100 hours of unpaid work, 20 sessions of rehabilitation work with probation and ordered to pay £213 in costs. She already owed the court £7,358, the court was told.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/ ... nk-driving

Jonathan

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
We've all met them having we, accident waiting to happen!
She was told a custodial sentence would be most likely.
But he escaped that by going into rehab.
Which she left early!
She even went shopping while she was there.
The judge said that she has to turn up and appear to do her community service which will probably be working in secondhand clothes shops.
and if she doesn't she will go to jail.
I'll believe that when I see it.
It's like people who commit perjury and then escape jail.
our local NHS trust CEO an ex nurse, defrauded the NHS and committed perjury.
I told a friend who owns a local shop That if they went to jail I would put money in their charity box, I was confident it wouldn't cost me a penny, well I'm poor anyway.