Dartmoor Cycling ban

[Jdsk]

Give right of way to a bear? You have to stop looking at things from one point of view. This puts an onus on the road user to protect the wildlife and area in which they travel. Not such a bad idea.

But how about the right to arm bears?

: - )

Jonathan

[Bmblbzzz]

But Dartmoor is one of very few NPs in England – the only one I think – to officially allow (as opposed to tolerate) wild camping.

[Thehairs1970]

Wild camping is to be pared back further. I did a lot of wild camping in the Peaks in my youth. Tolerated is an understatement.

[Bmblbzzz]

Don't know Peak District NP attitude, but it's not officially allowed, is the point.

[Thehairs1970]

Agreed it is the only one. Not sure what you mean by this though? Do you mean they are more accommodating than the others?

[Bmblbzzz]

I think the main point is to note the contrast between their tolerance of some activities and intolerance of others. Also that their tolerance generally has been reduced, ostensibly as a result of Pandemic-induced abuse/overuse.

[ChrisButch]

I didn’t think that anywhere in England allowed bicycle access on open access land so Dartmoor isn’t alone in this.

It's true that the CROW Act, unlike its Scottish equivalent, did not permit cycling on the newly-defined Access Land. But failure explicitly to permit is not the same as explicitly to forbid. (There's an oft-quoted definition of a free society which hangs on that distinction). Other National Parks have shown various degrees of toleration, depending on local circumstances.
The peculiar paradox of Dartmoor is that, on the one hand, much of the open moor is unrideable even on a full sus MTB, including many sections of historic PRsOW on which there's a statutory right, since they have reverted to deep molinia etc vegetation, thick scrub or bog: while on the other hand there are hard-surfaced landrover tracks, former railway trackbeds etc, which are eminently rideable without the slightest environmental or societal harm, but which are forbidden.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Started camping and walking on dartmoor in1974, and have done since.
Been cycling off road on dartmoor for 25 years, mostly with camping gear.
I have done 95 % of rideable dartmoor routes off road.
I have never had a problem with cycling on any rideable route, which is all tracks, all tracks through the woodlands, all disused railway tracks.
Bridle paths as said very often have no visible marks as no one now uses them ( I doubt that some were ever used when you look at the straight lines of the bridle path) across open moorland.

The building mentioned by a poster in a link is on a main cycle route, and would be useful for passing trade as its the main cycle route up on to Dartmoor.
Dartmoor businesses I feel have not grasped cyclist needs for refreshment in general, maybe just catering for grockles in cars and coaches.
My experience is that few cyclist are inclined to venture far from the beaten tracks, this tends to apply to walkers too.
You do meet the occasional so called extreme MTB cyclist but they are not out in drones.

Parking on Dartmoor is limited, but when there are raves etc its the all night party type in cars which descend en masse.

In the past Dartmoor authority wish to keep visitors to main areas where they can keep an eye on them.

Also there is a pub close by and the Building is it appears right on the edge of a golf course, the latter are very protective of their patch!

Individuals and small groups are not likely to get bother from the authorities if they stray on to disused railway lines, and any other tracks.
The wardens rarely stray far from the road.
Even the tracks on dartmoor particularly the north moor army tracks are hardcore!
How many get pleasure in doing tracks where you average speed is limited to 3mph assuming you are pretty fit.
Because unless you intend to get a lift up the hills to cycle down them your average round trip will be slow.
The hills and terrain including weather means not many cyclist are likely to venture there often (off road).

The only problems I see is that allowing free access to the whole open moor might mean some individuals, even small groups finding a downhill slope near a road and exercising their passion for downhill racing.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.46838 ... e3!5m1!1e3

[ChrisButch]

Individuals and small groups are not likely to get bother from the authorities if they stray on to disused railway lines, and any other tracks.
The wardens rarely stray far from the road.

Yes, there's little enforcement, and little publicity for the present ban either. I suspect few of the cyclists who do venture onto the moor have any idea that they're breaking a byelaw and could be fined. Which makes the retention of the ban all the more absurd. Given that the redrafting of the byelaws took place amid concern about increased antisocial behaviour, I suspect the cycling rule was left in more or less automatically, without much in the way of thought or evaluation.
The revisions in general have had quite a negative reception in the local media, with historically influential groups like the Dartmoor Preservation Association regretting the general tone of thoushaltnotedness. It remains to be seen if there will be any second thoughts, but I'm not optimistic about cycling.
I have a good deal of sympathy for the National Park Boards generally in trying to balance the two fundamental statutory duties, conservation and access, placed upon them by the postwar legislation which created the National Parks. There's always going to be tension between the two. In the case of Dartmoor particularly, where there have long been conflicting pressures from water and mineral extraction, forestry, the military and the prison, antiquarianism and tourism, and traditional grazing, getting the balance right is challenging.

[Thehairs1970]

The building mentioned by a poster in a link is on a main cycle route, and would be useful for passing trade as its the main cycle route up on to Dartmoor.

Also there is a pub close by and the Building is it appears right on the edge of a golf course, the latter are very protective of their patch!

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.46838 ... e3!5m1!1e3

A friend of mine was deeply involved in the planned cycling hub. The arguments against involved listing all the birds that might visit the area with no evidence that the cycling hub would affect them. Parking - despite there being a car park opposite. The pub would be affected - no licence was being sought that I know of. It seemed that many people just didn’t want to encourage cyclists. There have also been objections to creating a cycle path suitable for commuters between Yelverton and Plymouth despite the fact that this could potentially remove traffic from the main road and make it quicker for those who have to/need to drive.

Some people just don’t like cyclists.

[mjr]

Individuals and small groups are not likely to get bother from the authorities if they stray on to disused railway lines, and any other tracks.
The wardens rarely stray far from the road.
Even the tracks on dartmoor particularly the north moor army tracks are hardcore!

Sounds like that should be the rule: keep to the beaten tracks.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Dartmoor hasn't changed much and I don't want it to.
You only have to look at Exmoor to see how it can be ruined.........by farming before the national park status.
There are a few well beaten cycle trails / cycle ways on Dartmoor.
https://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/enjoy-dartm ... es/cycling
About five, I had to look, like I said keeping cyclist like visitors to designated arears is their way of policing.

But they cant be everywhere all the time, and I have yet to see a ranger on any legally cyclable route.
That does not mean they are not there mind you.
All the cycle off road recognised routes are on disused railways, please correct me.
Makes sense as a track already exits.

You will find cyclist on other routes like other tracks and bridleways, but mostly they are not connected to or going anywhere in particular.
I am not sure that there is a need to ban cyclist from open moorland..............why?......because its very hard work cyling off road off track or path or trail, in bad weather you would need to be machoistic! A bit like me
If you have ever cycled off road and then tried to go uphill you get the picture, its very energy sapping.

After you have explored the tracks even the forestry tracks, then the bridle paths where some have no sign on the ground to be seen, there are paths but not very suited for cyclist because they weave through peat and rocks and tall tough grass, seriously you can walk twice as fast backwards And of course some parts of even tracks etc are to tough and steep and dangerous for anything other than a trail motorcycle.

Next the bike- not really necessary for suspension or x-cross tyres either, I have never ridden a suspension bike on Dartmoor, I don't own one! Well I have a few or two or more but none have got out the gate yet.
A rigid halfords mtb and my trusty Raleigh tourer.

I am not worried about access to the open moor as such, all that's needed is for some of those opposing allowing open moor cycling thing is to make some attempt to do it/or walk along side a fit cyclist having a go.
On principle cyclist should be allowed to cycle anywhere, you just need to specify that they need to be 500 metres from any tarmac road or out of sight of a road to mount up.
That way any serious cyclist won't really mind, and other users of the moor whether on foot or in car won't ever see you..............much.
If you have ever tried cycling downhill of soft (untrodden) short grass like moorland, you will find on two inch tyres that you may well have to keep pedaling otherwise you can come to a halt.

There's plenty of off road cyclable stuff not listed in the link above within the five official routes to keep everyone happy.
Do I cycle off road on Dartmoor on open moorland.................hardly ever if at all, and there is normally walking involved too.
The hills and terrain plus the slightest precipitation will crucify you

[ChrisButch]

You're right about the impracticality of riding on much of the Moor, but that doesn't stop people trying. I'm often walking on Dartmoor, and nearly every time spot fresh tyre tracks. Not many, but usually a few. Yesterday I walked the round from Dartmoor Inn/Grt Links Tor/HareTor/Ger Tor, and there they were, not just on the outskirts but right up on the high fen. I also often see them on the Cosdon/Wild Tor/Hangingstone Hill ridge, and from Postbridge up to Sittaford Tor and beyond round Teignhead etc.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Yes you will see tire tracks sometime anywhere.
I've actually cycled to the Abbotts way with camping gear.
Perfectly legal of course apart from 1/4 half mile stretch which is marked as a path in black dash lines, I had to walk that bit

I met one guy once and he would find a place via online maps, then go and ride it, downhill of course, I am not sure he was doing this on this occasion but cause people do this and then posted the video on YouTube.
If I happen to be anywhere on the moors and I see a track which is rideable I will probably attempt to ride along it.
There is of course a limit to the sort of stuff you're going to ride.

A mate of mine built up a fancy mountain bike and then needed somewhere to ride it.
So they went off across the moors and it wasn't very long before one of them had to be helicoptered to hospital.
Previously he told me about one of his mates he also bashed himself up on some rocks on the moors.

I was in a shop on the edge of the moors one day, One of those all the gear mountain bike shops.
It wasn't very long before one of the shopowners mates came in bleeding to death, The owner had to excuse himself so we could patch the guy up!

I'm surprised I've managed to get this far because my cycling tends to be solo with a loaded bike, camping equipment.

[Jdsk]

Another Guardian article on the Okehampton line:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ear-hiatus

Okehampton businesses reckon it will be a financial boost for the town. “It’s going to be amazing,” said Paul Elston, who manages the youth hostel and bike hire store next to the station. He is anticipating carriages full of cyclists and hikers heading to Okehampton and the moor.

Jonathan