Dartmoor Cycling ban

[mattsccm]

"No drones, no overnight stays in camper vans, no dogs off leads blah blah blah. (I have no drone, van or dog so no personal axe to grind on those issues)"
Damn good job to. Drones should be banned in rural areas. And stuff the so called advantages of them. Same with campers and I own one. Would much prefer to stay in the middle of no where rather than on some site but having seen the horrendous changes in Scotland over the past few years I have to say that it is out of hand. Dogs. If people controlled the bloody dogs it would be no problem. At one point I had 4 springer spaniels. If I so wished they stay to heel like they were one 4 headed animal. All dogs can do that and damn well should if needed.

[Tiggertoo]

This from the Telegraph re. rounding up the ponies for counting: "Mountain bikers were the biggest problem as they do not even stick to cycle route."
Mountain bikers are the bane of all of us, they act irresponsibly and ignore all the rules. I have nothing but contempt for them.

[Pinkie]

"No drones, no overnight stays in camper vans, no dogs off leads blah blah blah. (I have no drone, van or dog so no personal axe to grind on those issues)"
Damn good job to. Drones should be banned in rural areas. And stuff the so called advantages of them. Same with campers and I own one. Would much prefer to stay in the middle of no where rather than on some site but having seen the horrendous changes in Scotland over the past few years I have to say that it is out of hand. Dogs. If people controlled the bloody dogs it would be no problem. At one point I had 4 springer spaniels. If I so wished they stay to heel like they were one 4 headed animal. All dogs can do that and damn well should if needed.

Drones are commonly banned in cities so a rural ban would be the end of drones. Not something I'm objecting to just that so far they have caused me no problem at all. So they would be a very long way down my personal " should be banded" list. What terrible issues have you had with them?

[Thehairs1970]

This from the Telegraph re. rounding up the ponies for counting: "Mountain bikers were the biggest problem as they do not even stick to cycle route."
Mountain bikers are the bane of all of us, they act irresponsibly and ignore all the rules. I have nothing but contempt for them.

Well Tiggertoo, as we know, you are never one to not spout a view…

As a mountain biker, roadie and tourer who lives on one edge of Dartmoor I feel duty bound to reply.

Yes some MTBs do ignore rules. So do roadies. We have all seen roadies sneak out on junctions, cycle through red lights etc etc. Does this mean all roadies are therefore the bane of us all. No.

MTBs on Dartmoor are very confined to a few old railway tracks and unrideable bridleways. The old railways hold little entertainment for mountain bikers but do provide a means to get to different areas. The bridleways are often straight lines drawn across a map that do not exist across the moorland. The tussocks of grass and bogs make them inaccessible to riders of horse and bike. How they were ever designated I do not know. So what happens, MTBs end up pushing onto the footpaths (dodgy), open access areas (you wouldn’t know they’d been there any more than a walker) and the forestry commission areas (lots more fun).

Just like the ramblers to committed mass trespass to access the countryside, MTBs on Dartmoor are merely asking for fair access to the moor.

[CinnabarMoth]

Drones are commonly banned in cities so a rural ban would be the end of drones. Not something I'm objecting to just that so far they have caused me no problem at all. So they would be a very long way down my personal " should be banded" list. What terrible issues have you had with them?

A ban on drones on Dartmoor may have something to do with the moor's use as a military training area, drones model aircraft and kites are banned from Salisbury Plain Training Area.

[Bmblbzzz]

"No drones, no overnight stays in camper vans, no dogs off leads blah blah blah. (I have no drone, van or dog so no personal axe to grind on those issues)"
Damn good job to. Drones should be banned in rural areas. And stuff the so called advantages of them. Same with campers and I own one. Would much prefer to stay in the middle of no where rather than on some site but having seen the horrendous changes in Scotland over the past few years I have to say that it is out of hand. Dogs. If people controlled the bloody dogs it would be no problem. At one point I had 4 springer spaniels. If I so wished they stay to heel like they were one 4 headed animal. All dogs can do that and damn well should if needed.

Asking for clarification: do you or do you not own a camper van? Perhaps you're trying to distinguish between a van and a camper van – or a camper and a camper van, in which case what is the distinction?

[ChrisButch]

This from the Telegraph re. rounding up the ponies for counting: "Mountain bikers were the biggest problem as they do not even stick to cycle route."
Mountain bikers are the bane of all of us, they act irresponsibly and ignore all the rules. I have nothing but contempt for them.

The substance of the quote apart, it's hard to see the relevance, since that Telegraph report is concerned specifically with the New Forest. As for the report itself, the illustration of a complaint that mountain bikers don't stick to marked tracks with photos exclusively of road cyclists on tarmac gives you an idea of the quality of its journalism.

[mattheus]

"No drones, no overnight stays in camper vans, no dogs off leads blah blah blah. (I have no drone, van or dog so no personal axe to grind on those issues)"
Damn good job to. Drones should be banned in rural areas. And stuff the so called advantages of them. Same with campers and I own one. Would much prefer to stay in the middle of no where rather than on some site but having seen the horrendous changes in Scotland over the past few years I have to say that it is out of hand. Dogs. If people controlled the bloody dogs it would be no problem. At one point I had 4 springer spaniels. If I so wished they stay to heel like they were one 4 headed animal. All dogs can do that and damn well should if needed.

Excellent. When are you running for President?

[Mike Sales]

At one point I had 4 springer spaniels. If I so wished they stay to heel like they were one 4 headed animal. All dogs can do that and damn well should if needed.

I am not a dog lover, but I once looked after a friend's dog for a few days. It was immaculately trained. It did not need to be on a lead.
A glance and a finger gesture would bring it to heel.
When I stopped to cross a road it would immediately sit beside me, waiting until I began to cross.
I could take it for a run whilst I cycled, when it behaved just as well.
A slight problem was that it was faster uphill, but slower down!
It never bothered other people.
I have been often chased by dogs, and often the owner apologises, telling me it does not like cyclists!

[ChrisButch]

The revised, post-consultation draft of the bylaw update has now been published. The cycling ban remains unaltered from the draft except for an addition to make clear the ban includes ebikes. So the persuasively argued objections from CUK and many others have been ignored.
https://us12.campaign-archive.com/?u=21 ... 7ddb1f7a4a
https://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/__data/asse ... r-2022.pdf

[Zulu Eleven]

The revised, post-consultation draft of the bylaw update has now been published. The cycling ban remains unaltered from the draft except for an addition to make clear the ban includes ebikes. So the persuasively argued objections from CUK and many others have been ignored.
https://us12.campaign-archive.com/?u=21 ... 7ddb1f7a4a
https://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/__data/asse ... r-2022.pdf

Rest assured we are aware of this and are in discussion with other organisations on next steps here. I’ll not say too much other than we remain convinced that the Byelaw needs significant rewriting.

[pwa]

"No drones, no overnight stays in camper vans, no dogs off leads blah blah blah. (I have no drone, van or dog so no personal axe to grind on those issues)"
Damn good job to. Drones should be banned in rural areas. And stuff the so called advantages of them. Same with campers and I own one. Would much prefer to stay in the middle of no where rather than on some site but having seen the horrendous changes in Scotland over the past few years I have to say that it is out of hand. Dogs. If people controlled the bloody dogs it would be no problem. At one point I had 4 springer spaniels. If I so wished they stay to heel like they were one 4 headed animal. All dogs can do that and damn well should if needed.

Not all dogs are as trainable for off-lead behaviour as springers. We have a whippet.and she is like a bullet out of a gun if she spots prey, typically squirrels or rabbits. For a minute or so she loses the ability to listen to anything you tell her. It is the way she is hard wired. But we know that and act accordingly. Each breed has its traits and the owner has to be familiar with them and ensure they don't cause trouble. In our case, if problems look imminent, we get the whippet back on the lead ASAP.

[ChrisButch]

The revised, post-consultation draft of the bylaw update has now been published. The cycling ban remains unaltered from the draft except for an addition to make clear the ban includes ebikes. So the persuasively argued objections from CUK and many others have been ignored.
https://us12.campaign-archive.com/?u=21 ... 7ddb1f7a4a
https://www.dartmoor.gov.uk/__data/asse ... r-2022.pdf

Rest assured we are aware of this and are in discussion with other organisations on next steps here. I’ll not say too much other than we remain convinced that the Byelaw needs significant rewriting.

'We' being...?

[mattsccm]

The above OP has a dog that won't stay to heel. So he acts accordingly. As should be done.
I do own a comaper van, you are mistaking my quote for my post.
I see no need for recreational drones. Commercial, by government agancies for issues of national benefit , fair enough. For commercial or recreational use, no.

[pwa]

Taking on the role of Devil's Advocate for a moment, and trying to imagine what might make someone of goodwill want a ban on cycling on any path in an area of common, it occurs to me that there is a path that I walk on a lot, a Public Footpath, that is great for walking with our dog off the lead, and on which I have only once met an ill-advised group of MTB riders who had thought it might be a good route to cycle. But it is too narrow, too confined, to allow bikes and pedestrians to pass without the pedestrians having to step to one side. On a single isolated occasion that is no big deal, but if that path ever became popular with MTBers it would become less enjoyable to walkers and I for one would stop wanting to use it. On the one occasion I mentioned, the MTBers came in a long string and over the course of about a minute and a half, with the first few telling me there were more following. I had grabbed the dog by the collar and was pressed into the undergrowth at the side on a particularly narrow section. This is the path, but the section where I was passed was a narrower channel.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.48724 ... 312!8i6656
Does anyone think that a clash of interests, between those on foot and those on two wheels might be key to understanding what is going on in the Dartmoor case?

In the example I give the clash has not recurred, and I suspect the reason is that the path is unpleasant to cycle due to its narrowness and the need to duck a lot. In a way it is self-regulating, discouraging use by those who require a bit more elbow room by not providing it. Maybe people are trying it once on a bike, thinking it might be okay, but finding it hard work and not bothering with it again, except on foot. But this is an area known to locals but not to tourists, so that learning and self-regulation can happen. Perhaps the fear might be that in a tourist magnet like Dartmoor there might constantly be people, on bikes, who are new to the area and have not built up a mental map of paths to use and paths not to use.

My own encounter with that group of MTBers that day was a trivial affair and hardly worth a mention in itself, as it was a one-off. But it came to mind when thinking about Dartmoor.