Boris Johnson's A levels

[Psamathe]

.......- but seems a good few are no better then others with run-of-the-mill degrees - or indeed no degree at all.

My impression (and little beyond personal impression) is that it comes down to an extent that some people are very good at remembering things (without much understanding) vs others who are much better at understanding stuff (without bothering to learn loads of not very useful facts).

In one degree course at the end of the lecture series, last lecture he said "At this point I normally tell you the questions you'll be getting in the exam, but the faculty sort of object to this practice. So instead in anybody should ask me then I'll happily answer truthfully". He explained the reason he did this was he felt it a complete waste of time for people to cram loads of dry facts in preparation for regurgitating them in the exam and he felt his questions deep enough that you'd need to show understand even with advance knowledge (i.e. he was testing understanding and advance knowledge didn't help with that). And he did (say what the exam questions were).

Ian

[[XAP]Bob]

A-levels are a poor indicator of intelligence.

I have no A Levels, but have six O Levels and left school at 16 in 1969 and joined the RN. Served until 1996 when I'd had enough.

1990? - I was aware of my intelligence and saw an ad in the paper for Mensa, and wrote off for a test.
Can't remember my recorded IQ score, but they were impressed enough to invite me to Bristol to take another test as well as ask me to join Mensa. 120 or so? Could have been more, but I don't care. Can't honestly remember the score.

TBH, I couldn't be bothered going up the A30/M5 etc to there to prove what I already knew.

Won't have been 120 - Mensa require at or above the 98th centile - the actual number depends on the scale in question - Stanford Binet is 132, Cattell is 148.

[pwa]

Neither A Level results nor IQ tests really tell you how clever someone is. The latter tells you how good people are at IQ tests. And there are different types of intelligence. There are people, for instance, who are amazingly fast with number problems, but who can't read other people's emotions.

I don't care about BJ's A Level results. To be honest, after all this time I'm not even sure what mine were. Who cares? They were just a ticket to what came next.

[Stradageek]

I'm presuming he would have had to pass the Oxford entrance exam too; back in the 1980s at private schools in particular post-A-level teenagers at went back to their school to cram for the now abolished entrance examinations for Oxford and Cambridge Universities (and I believe if they passed those they were in, irrespective of A-level results).

I think at state schools highly talented students did these in their fourth term (first term of Upper Sixth). I seem to remember a girl in my year passing entrance to Oxford or Cambridge and then following it up with a suite of 'E's in her A-levels and that made no difference - she was in.

All correct, I was one of those state school pupils who having passed the entrance exam needed only two E's at A-level to secure a grant (remember them!).

However, I could never consider myself to be 'highly talented' in any way, I just had to work very hard. It was only during my final year at university that I discovered that there was a clever trick. It was always said that you could get a top grade on a finals paper if you wove your essays around just one fact and one good idea. This was my very late realisation. In one of my finals papers I was stumped as I needed to answer a question about heart muscle about which I could remember almost nothing so wove the answer around the one fact I could remember and a silly idea I dreamt up on the spot. This paper got me my top mark.

Oxford rewards people who can make a little knowledge look and sound impressive. To a certain extent this means innovative thinking but to a large extent it just means bluffing.

Enter, stage right, Boris Johnson

[[XAP]Bob]

Neither A Level results nor IQ tests really tell you how clever someone is. The latter tells you how good people are at IQ tests. And there are different types of intelligence. There are people, for instance, who are amazingly fast with number problems, but who can't read other people's emotions.

I don't care about BJ's A Level results. To be honest, after all this time I'm not even sure what mine were. Who cares? They were just a ticket to what came next.

A well designed IQ test is something that you shouldn't be able to "practice" to get better results. They are not all that commonly set out.
It's also particularly hard to have tests which distinguish the top (or bottom, bell curves are symmetrical) few percent without that test being useless for the majority.

A levels, I agree with you - they are much more "prepared" examinations (and coursework).

There are loads of intelligence types (and even more theories about how many there are). Beckham is the classic example of an utter genius in an often underrated area of intelligence (kinesthetic), his intelligence in other areas was reportedly not very high.
Unfortunately there seems to be a significant push that everyone should be academically bright (whatever that means), and the loss of polytechnics and true apprenticeships was a significantly retrograde step.

[thirdcrank]

Perhaps an important role of higher education should be to help students understand the difference between their own, unsupported opinions and arguments supported with evidence.

[[XAP]Bob]

Perhaps an important role of higher education should be to help students understand the difference between their own, unsupported opinions and arguments supported with evidence.

That needs to introduced be in the primary curriculum, and then cemented in secondary.

Higher education should be having that as a base level expectation.

[Ben@Forest]

That needs to introduced be in the primary curriculum, and then cemented in secondary.

This was already being done in the 1980s, so l presume it's being done today. I can remember in O level English Language having to present two sides of the argument. When l went on to A level English Literature l wrote my first essay (which must have had a questioning title) with one, then another side. I was told pretty smartly to cut that out - just one (referenced) side was needed.

[pete75]

Education doesn't create intelligence.



You can record this and quote me, as that sounds like a good sound-bite!

No but it usually shows how to use it in the most effective way and/or for the greatest personal advantage.

[[XAP]Bob]

That needs to introduced be in the primary curriculum, and then cemented in secondary.

This was already being done in the 1980s, so l presume it's being done today. I can remember in O level English Language having to present two sides of the argument. When l went on to A level English Literature l wrote my first essay (which must have had a questioning title) with one, then another side. I was told pretty smartly to cut that out - just one (referenced) side was needed.

Observations of the general public would indicate that it hasn't been effectively taught.

[Stevek76]

Neither A Level results nor IQ tests really tell you how clever someone is. The latter tells you how good people are at IQ tests. And there are different types of intelligence. There are people, for instance, who are amazingly fast with number problems, but who can't read other people's emotions.

I don't care about BJ's A Level results. To be honest, after all this time I'm not even sure what mine were. Who cares? They were just a ticket to what came next.

A well designed IQ test is something that you shouldn't be able to "practice" to get better results. They are not all that commonly set out.

In practice though that is impossible. Most of the questions used by mensa and others are all 'learnable' to some extent. Whether that's mathematical tricks and methods for puzzle solving or simple recognition of the answer.

A simple example would be next series numbers like 1,1,2,3,5,8 etc. There's a big difference in the times taken between three equal iq individuals but one has to work the whole thing out from scratch, one who knows a few methods for dealing with series and the last straight up recognises a particular series.

Now no vaguely competent iq test would use that particular case, I'm using it as an obvious example, however same problem still applies to more complex puzzles

[simonineaston]

Brilliant test of intelligence... ! Can you keep a planet alive?
hahahahahahahahaha !!

[kylecycler]

Brilliant test of intelligence... ! Can you keep a planet alive?
hahahahahahahahaha !!

Or in Boris's case, can you convince everyone you're keeping a planet alive without actually keeping a planet alive?

Bwahahahahahahahahah!!!