Cycling UK Forum

Usage is king I suppose.
Cobbles is cobbles.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cobbled ... =759&dpr=1

One could ask questions of British roads, why so many potholes? and why so many rough road surfaces? In Portugal they tend to leave the cobbles that pass through towns and villages as it helps to slow down traffic passing through. Also the local camaras (councils) are generally responsible for local road maintenance and probably employ, and wish to continue to employ, those with the skills to lay down cobbles and it may well be cheaper than tarmac, and is easier to lift up to make repairs to utilities and services. When I first went to Portugal 25 years ago many main roads between towns were still cobbled, if you went on a long journey you arrived shaken and stirred.

rotavator wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 9:39pm No hydrocarbons, i.e. tar, needed. May be this will become more of an issue in the future when oil production has ceased, and when I guess concrete will become the main road-making material.

The concrete making process emits a large amount of CO2 - 1 tonne per tonne of concrete if I remember correctly.

Concrete is being removed from the building industry, Scandianvia, Germany and Canada already have wooden skyscrapers.

Jdsk wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 9:47pm

simonhill wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 9:07pmWhy are Portugal building new roads with cobbles?

Cobbles or setts?

Thanks

Jonathan

Traditionally, Calcada in Portugal.

Used for roads and pavements. Ordinarily just limestone blocks, sometimes decorative limestone/basalt(?) patterns/pictures.
Ground flat and sealed eg. in airports....in the original rough form a rather painful surround to swimming pools.

531colin wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 5:58pm

Jdsk wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 9:47pm

simonhill wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 9:07pmWhy are Portugal building new roads with cobbles?

Cobbles or setts?

Traditionally, Calcada in Portugal.

Used for roads and pavements. Ordinarily just limestone blocks, sometimes decorative limestone/basalt(?) patterns/pictures.
Ground flat and sealed eg. in airports....in the original rough form a rather painful surround to swimming pools.

Thankyou... off to read about it.

Jonathan

Aren't setts harder wearing than tarmac? I'm sure I remember alpine passes often having tarmac on the straight bits but pavé on the hairpins? (I'm thinking of the 1960s-70s.)

Cobbles are cute, but you wouldn't want to live there!

If you ride up from the Col Amic to the Grand Ballon (around 1400 metres) and then take the road for Thann you will find yourself merrily gathering speed on fair-to-middling tarmac then, just as you begin to really enjoy it, you will hit this:



More than one has lost his coolth at this point and gone looking for mushrooms. I was lucky enough to be forewarned.

http://velo-altitude.fr/grand-ballon-da ... -sur-thur/

st599_uk wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 5:41pm

rotavator wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 9:39pm No hydrocarbons, i.e. tar, needed. May be this will become more of an issue in the future when oil production has ceased, and when I guess concrete will become the main road-making material.

The concrete making process emits a large amount of CO2 - 1 tonne per tonne of concrete if I remember correctly.

Concrete is being removed from the building industry, Scandianvia, Germany and Canada already have wooden skyscrapers.

So what will roads be made of in the future? Compacted aggregate or "gravel" may be. I read that in the USA some tarmac roads are being converted back to gravel.

rotavator wrote: ↑13 Nov 2021, 1:21pmSo what will roads be made of in the future?

Some interesting alternatives:
https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articl ... -concrete/

Jonathan

simonhill wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 9:07pmWhy are Portugal building new roads with cobbles?

It was good enough for the Romans? You have to contract out of Libson for tarmac, but 'Sousa's Paving - Cobblestone Streets Since 1756' is local? Imported vs. in-country available material? Government 'make work' program?

Cycling on these is a pain...

Dr. Alex Moulton, call your office!

rotavator wrote: ↑13 Nov 2021, 1:21pm I read that in the USA some tarmac roads are being converted back to gravel.

Yep, some places, particularly where there's been a de-industrialization tax base decline. Here in Texas, we've been on a chipseal binge for the last 30 years or so, hard paving any little country lane where a voter lives. The gravel bike fans, like their Strade Bianche counterparts, lament this but in some areas, it's created a lovely, quiet network for road cycling.

Audax67 wrote: ↑13 Nov 2021, 11:22am If you ride up from the Col Amic to the Grand Ballon (around 1400 metres) and then take the road for Thann you will find yourself merrily gathering speed on fair-to-middling tarmac then, just as you begin to really enjoy it, you will hit this:



More than one has lost his coolth at this point and gone looking for mushrooms. I was lucky enough to be forewarned.

http://velo-altitude.fr/grand-ballon-da ... -sur-thur/

Those nevertheless look a lot smoother than the setts in many historic British town centres.
Random representative streetview:
https://goo.gl/maps/th4M1PmLFMQd9Roh7

rotavator wrote: ↑13 Nov 2021, 1:21pm

st599_uk wrote: ↑12 Nov 2021, 5:41pm

rotavator wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 9:39pm No hydrocarbons, i.e. tar, needed. May be this will become more of an issue in the future when oil production has ceased, and when I guess concrete will become the main road-making material.

The concrete making process emits a large amount of CO2 - 1 tonne per tonne of concrete if I remember correctly.

Concrete is being removed from the building industry, Scandianvia, Germany and Canada already have wooden skyscrapers.

So what will roads be made of in the future? Compacted aggregate or "gravel" may be. I read that in the USA some tarmac roads are being converted back to gravel.

Cement and Concrete accounts for 8% of global CO2 emissions apparently: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02612-5

Compare that to aviation at 2.5% and you can see the amount of effort that will be needed.

simonhill wrote: ↑11 Nov 2021, 9:07pm Can anyone explain the advantages of cobbled roads in an urban environment? About the only plus is they probably slow vehicles down a bit, but modern cars seem to handle them pretty well.

1/ Cheap and highly durable surface ... depending on what type of stone. eg. granite cobbles are common in Northern Italy owing to cheapness of the rock - the Alps in that area being granite.

2/ Repairs/laying of utilities are/is cheap and easy because they just lift and then re-lay the stones ... genius.