Islabike choc or Beinn for 4YO?

[Thisishalloween86]

I have a fairly tall 3YO who turns 4 in a couple of months and I want to get her a next size up for birthday/summer. She's been riding a Woom 2 easily since just turned 3. She's pretty nifty on it and enjoys it just fine but not uber confident or daring (just her personality) We have it on the highest setting now and she's just able to plant her feet on the ground so I think her inside leg is about 48cm which makes the islabike 20 inch small an ideal choice since this is exactly the minimum leg length. However it seems it comes in this size as both gears (beinn) or starter bike (choc) My question is does she need to be proficient at switching gears to ride a geared bike or can she just leave them alone? (Sorry if that's a really daft question) And also what age do kids tend to want to try gears? Is it a bit of a moot point for such a young kid and therefore not worth the extra £100 the geared model costs? I'm open to any other suggestions of bikes too btw but am favouring the islabike so far as it's one of the only 20inch ones she'd be tall enough for and surely the extra tyre width will help with stamina etc if we want to do family bike rides this summer? TIA

[Bonefishblues]

Yes, you can simply put the Beinn in a single gear (equivalent to the Cnoc) and let her ride it, no problem. As long as she fits the bike, then go for the Beinn as you're better future-proofed - for a little while, at least!

She'll fiddle with the gears soon enough, anyway.

[Jdsk]

As above. And you can make the gears unchangeable if you choose.

Jonathan

PS: Have you spotted the market in preloved Islabikes... it's quite unlike anything else that I know. And we're working through it with grandchildren. : - )

[M_Chavez]

A bit of an old thread so probably irrelevant to the OP, but why on earth is everyone selling geared bikes for small kids these days, while SS options are very limited and only available with "starter bike" geometry, often on severely overweight bikes?
First thing I do for my kids is rip out anything to do with gears and convert the bike to a single speed. Done it to a frog 58 and kona Jake 24.
- I haven't yet seen a kid under 7 who can fully focus on riding the bike and changing gears at the same time.
- Kids end up in too high a gear and struggle to push the pedals. Single speed teaches them proper cadence.
- This is shaving off over 1kg of bike weight (which is a big difference for an adult, never mind a 20kg kid!).
- SS gearing ends up being set to a rather large rear cog (to allow climbing hills), which greatly limits the bike's top speed. Much easier to keep the kids safe if you're cycling with more than one, especially if they are of different age & cycling strength.
- One less thing for dad-the-home-mechanic to maintain

Imho, the only reason for putting gears on bikes for small kids is that it allows bike shops to charge an extra fortune for sticking a cheap entry-level geared drivetrain on a bike that doesn't need it.

Rant over

[pjclinch]

A bit of an old thread so probably irrelevant to the OP, but why on earth is everyone selling geared bikes for small kids these days, while SS options are very limited and only available with "starter bike" geometry, often on severely overweight bikes?
First thing I do for my kids is rip out anything to do with gears and convert the bike to a single speed. Done it to a frog 58 and kona Jake 24.

While for the most part I'd agree that gears are a complication too much for small riders who just need a runabout, some of us do live in places with Proper Hills, and moving to an Isla Beinn 20 with easy-to-change gears made a big difference to my kids, and for the youngsters I host at the local Junior CC to do basic MTB they're frankly a bit snookered if they show up with a singe speed.

- I haven't yet seen a kid under 7 who can fully focus on riding the bike and changing gears at the same time.

It may be unusual, yes, but it certainly happens. Watch an U-8 MTB or cyclo-cross race and you'll see lots of kids who can do that.

- Kids end up in too high a gear and struggle to push the pedals. Single speed teaches them proper cadence.

There is a subset that always chooses a too-low gear and have their feet flying around like turbines to maintain less than walking pace, but mashers very much to the fore... However, single speed only teaches "proper cadence" at one speed, which they may well not be at. The point of gears, used well, is so the cadence can be normalised as the speed changes (though how one teaches that to sprogs is a mystery I've yet to unlock, I certainly never realised until I was well in to my twenties).

- This is shaving off over 1kg of bike weight (which is a big difference for an adult, never mind a 20kg kid!).

I'd be very surprised if the sort of setup Islabikes uses on a Beinn weighs that much, but where you move to Bicycle Shaped Objects this is a very good point. Though back to Isla, the original USP was (and remains, though no longer the only one doing so) a focus on lightness. Yes, a derailleur adds weight, but as above it can be useful weight if you have hills or off-road on the agenda.

- SS gearing ends up being set to a rather large rear cog (to allow climbing hills), which greatly limits the bike's top speed. Much easier to keep the kids safe if you're cycling with more than one, especially if they are of different age & cycling strength.

If they have the same gear but different capability then that gear is wrong for at least one of them.

- One less thing for dad-the-home-mechanic to maintain

That's a good reason, particulary on BSOs where the gears are teriible quality. But the ones on our kids' Islabikes really weren't ever much bother.

Imho, the only reason for putting gears on bikes for small kids is that it allows bike shops to charge an extra fortune for sticking a cheap entry-level geared drivetrain on a bike that doesn't need it.

That is very fair comment for BSOs (and the same goes for their laughable "suspension"), but I don't think it can be fairly applied to an Islabike or similar. The gearing on a Beinn (note, they only have singe-speed for smaller bikes, I guess for a lot of the reasons above) makes the bike potentially more useful and more fun. Kids show up for MTB sport on Beinns and they're fine, they cycle to and from school in hilly places and they're fine.

Pete.

[M_Chavez]

Some fair points Pete, but I must clarify that I did not mean racing or any other specialist application. A bash around the neighbourhood, or a nice relaxed <10m trip out with the family is how most kids use their bikes.
I bet 99% of kids have never heard the word "cyclocross", never mind actually racing.

Islas make very good bikes - at least the newer generation ones I've seen were good. The problem with isla is the price - £850 for luath with guards £550 for beinn 20 that most kids will outgrow in a year and a half. Used ones are not far off the new prices and are often trashed or neglected. Most parents won't consider spending this much on a kid's bike unfortunately (which, in itself, is a separate issue). But why not build a 6kg SS that will provide everything 99% of kids need?

Some big hills here too. Remember, SS has 4 speeds. Sitting, standing, pushing, carrying. For <8yo kids running up the hill, pushing a light bike will probably be faster and more fun than spinning a granny gear at 1.5mph.
Correct gearing needs to be picked for every kid - that's probably the main drawback, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do that.

Boat anchor BSOs deserve a whole new thread for a rant, but there's plenty of reasonable bikes in mid price range that, imho could benefit from going SS.

[Jdsk]

Islas make very good bikes - at least the newer generation ones I've seen were good. The problem with isla is the price - £850 for luath with guards £550 for beinn 20 that most kids will outgrow in a year and a half. Used ones are not far off the new prices and are often trashed or neglected.

This isn't my experience. The secondary market is rather unusual: they do hold their value and there are lots in excellent condition. I've mostly bought through Gumtree.

Jonathan

[Bonefishblues]

Islas make very good bikes - at least the newer generation ones I've seen were good. The problem with isla is the price - £850 for luath with guards £550 for beinn 20 that most kids will outgrow in a year and a half. Used ones are not far off the new prices and are often trashed or neglected.

This isn't my experience. The secondary market is rather unusual: they do hold their value and there are lots in excellent condition. I've mostly bought through Gumtree.

Jonathan

Indeed - they sometimes get a bit ratty when in the 3rd or 4th hands (the ones with the silver-edged saddles are the older ones), but other than the odd scratch all's been well for us too.

[RickH]

There is always the possibility of making it single speed temporarily by just by removing the gear cable & using the adjuster screws to set the chain on one, lower gear. I did that on one lad's bike when we were taking him out & I found the gear outer cable was trashed meaning he was struggling a bit in top gear.

That boy has a new bike & his old one has been given to us to pass on to our youngest grandson. I may leave it like that initially as it will likely be the bike he learns to ride on.

[pjclinch]

Some fair points Pete, but I must clarify that I did not mean racing or any other specialist application. A bash around the neighbourhood, or a nice relaxed <10m trip out with the family is how most kids use their bikes.
I bet 99% of kids have never heard the word "cyclocross", never mind actually racing.

Islas make very good bikes - at least the newer generation ones I've seen were good. The problem with isla is the price - £850 for luath with guards £550 for beinn 20 that most kids will outgrow in a year and a half. Used ones are not far off the new prices and are often trashed or neglected. Most parents won't consider spending this much on a kid's bike unfortunately (which, in itself, is a separate issue). But why not build a 6kg SS that will provide everything 99% of kids need?

You can make exactly the same arguments for adult bikes, and outside of remarkably flat places adults tend to get multiple gears. Why? Some of it's marketing, but mostly it makes it easer. Adults buy gears because they want them, and kids want them too.
I grew up in SE London and despite feeling like I wasn't trying if I changed out of top I did use all my 3 gears on my paper round because I had to, and those hills were shallower and lower than the ones my kids had to ride up coming home from school every day, to ride up the hill we live on.

As for costs, the second hand market means you get most of your money back. Our two Beinn 20Ls went to Belgium at an excellent price because the buyer couldn't buy similar locally.

Some big hills here too. Remember, SS has 4 speeds. Sitting, standing, pushing, carrying. For <8yo kids running up the hill, pushing a light bike will probably be faster and more fun than spinning a granny gear at 1.5mph.

I think we're talking either different levels of hill or different levels of child enthusiasm. Most journeys that end up at our house involve at least 50m of climbing and gradients of 10% are easy to come by (bottom of our lane is about 15% I think, but it can be avoided by a detour).

Correct gearing needs to be picked for every kid - that's probably the main drawback, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do that.

I though one of the great things about SS was no such faffing about?

Boat anchor BSOs deserve a whole new thread for a rant, but there's plenty of reasonable bikes in mid price range that, imho could benefit from going SS.

I think a SS Beinn would be a genuinely useful addition to the range, but an addition, not a replacement for a geared model.

Pete.

[ratherbeintobago]

I think a SS Beinn would be a genuinely useful addition to the range, but an addition, not a replacement for a geared model.

Cnoc 20 is essentially a Beinn 20S single speed.

TBH my two didn’t really get the hang of gears until they were 7-8 by which time a Beinn 20S will be outgrown. I’d go for the Cnoc for a 4yo but there aren’t that many of them around s/h.

We’re on our third Isla here (Beinn 26S) - only bought the Cnoc 16 new.

[pjclinch]

I think a SS Beinn would be a genuinely useful addition to the range, but an addition, not a replacement for a geared model.

Cnoc 20 is essentially a Beinn 20S single speed.

I didn't realise there was such a thing! Our youngest is now an adult so it's been a while since I checked out the range...