Heat in the home

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

My central heating is set for what range?

I don't have central heating
11
15%
below 18
25
34%
18-20
27
37%
21-22
5
7%
23-25
2
3%
25-plus
3
4%
 
Total votes: 73

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by roubaixtuesday »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 10:29am Technical difficulties stated to be enormous and an end projected number of heated houses only 10,000.
Plus some extracted Lithium, apparently.
.....
Hydro in S Wales valleys combined with sustainable and locally controlled forestry practices my preferred option!
A "House" is not the most useful unit of energy IMO, so I had a little google.

The facility seems to be rated at 3 MW, with future expansion to 6MW anticipated, just at a single site.

"Hydro in S Wales Valleys" - what's the potential?
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by PDQ Mobile »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 11:20am
PDQ Mobile wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 10:29am Technical difficulties stated to be enormous and an end projected number of heated houses only 10,000.
Plus some extracted Lithium, apparently.
.....
Hydro in S Wales valleys combined with sustainable and locally controlled forestry practices my preferred option!
A "House" is not the most useful unit of energy IMO, so I had a little google.

The facility seems to be rated at 3 MW, with future expansion to 6MW anticipated, just at a single site.

"Hydro in S Wales Valleys" - what's the potential?
Potential is how much it has rained I guess!
At the moment a lot!!
But sometimes not much.

The article I read was also about ameliorating flooding through constant cover forestry.
Win/win?

Don't worry, it almost certainly another news pap "boost" to Wales that's bound to fail.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwykgkn5wx0o


The "HEATED HOUSE " is simply the measure in rjb's quoted article and clearly there are big differences between houses for a variety of reasons.
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Cugel
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by Cugel »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 10:33am On the Morris Minor issue.
The reason many people hung onto their Minors is simplicity and repairability.
The vehicle is super basic yet offers reasonable comfort for short trips and will happily achieve over 40 mpg.
(Weighs less than 800 kgs.)
And the old things are actually quite fun to drive.
A fair few have now been converted to electric.

Anyone still running a Minor, and can do their own repairs, will not see wheels or gearboxes "fall off" but rather will simply have probably the lowest running costs of ANY vehicle on the roads of the UK today!
(Even if value is not taken into account.)
319 years ago, when I were a student living in a hovel many miles from the uni, I had a girlfriend who was one of the very few students in them days who could afford to run a car. (There were about 23 of them in the whole uni with cars, at the time). The moggie was a favourite student car as there were dozens of clapped out ones for sale at not that much. They soon got clapped out, unless one spent a lot of time or money or both keeping them going.

The incidents of a gearbox falling in the road and losing a wheel actually occurred in the girlfriend's mog when I was in it! It wasn't the only incident involving bits coming off, as mudguards, headlights. a door and other more mysterious parts were prone to go their own way from time to time.

40mpg!? Hmmmm - I recall it becoming an issue, the paying for petrol, as the thing seemed to drink it like a retired colonel at the port. It also drank nearly as much oil as it did petrol, regurgitating quite a bit on to wherever it was parked, with the rest creating a cloud of black out the back that would now be called "rolling coal".

British engineering at its best! It needed to be repairable, all right. Constantly. :-)
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
rjb
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by rjb »

Not a moggi but as a family we had 3 Austin A35's. Dad's, mum's and mine. We spent most weekends servicing them so they were serviceable for Monday morning. There were several grease nipples which needed a squirt from the grease gun, brake drums opened so we could blow all the asbestos dust out from the brake shoes. Resetting of the points and spark plug gaps. Topping the oil , radiator and brake fluid to the correct level. They were ancient enough to have trafficators. Always started even if you had to swing on the starting handle during the winter months.
How did I find time to ride the bike.
Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X2, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840, Apollo transition. :D
PDQ Mobile
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Joined: 2 Aug 2015, 4:40pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Cugel wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 12:56pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 10:33am On the Morris Minor issue.
The reason many people hung onto their Minors is simplicity and repairability.
The vehicle is super basic yet offers reasonable comfort for short trips and will happily achieve over 40 mpg.
(Weighs less than 800 kgs.)
And the old things are actually quite fun to drive.
A fair few have now been converted to electric.

Anyone still running a Minor, and can do their own repairs, will not see wheels or gearboxes "fall off" but rather will simply have probably the lowest running costs of ANY vehicle on the roads of the UK today!
(Even if value is not taken into account.)
319 years ago, when I were a student living in a hovel many miles from the uni, I had a girlfriend who was one of the very few students in them days who could afford to run a car. (There were about 23 of them in the whole uni with cars, at the time). The moggie was a favourite student car as there were dozens of clapped out ones for sale at not that much. They soon got clapped out, unless one spent a lot of time or money or both keeping them going.

The incidents of a gearbox falling in the road and losing a wheel actually occurred in the girlfriend's mog when I was in it! It wasn't the only incident involving bits coming off, as mudguards, headlights. a door and other more mysterious parts were prone to go their own way from time to time.

40mpg!? Hmmmm - I recall it becoming an issue, the paying for petrol, as the thing seemed to drink it like a retired colonel at the port. It also drank nearly as much oil as it did petrol, regurgitating quite a bit on to wherever it was parked, with the rest creating a cloud of black out the back that would now be called "rolling coal".

British engineering at its best! It needed to be repairable, all right. Constantly. :-)
Well I'll stick up for the much maligned Minor.

Like any old car if you don't service it, it will have failures.
These £50 quid bangers of yours were doubtlessly abused (but loads of fun))
Students are probably some of the worst offenders in that regard, no money and busy servicing other things. :D
The threaded front kingpin on a Minor is a classic example - grease it regularly or it will drop.
Nearly always on a tight lock at slow speed because of worn thread.
However kept greased it is durable enough.

Pat Moss completed the1957 (27th overall against much bigger cars) Rome- Liege- Rome rally in a Minor mainly because of it's ruggedness on the poor roads of the time.

I have crossed the Continent many times in a Minor, Chamonix, Alpine passes and down to the Med.
Summer and winter.
Never had a big issue.
Never needed a rescue or a garage.

A Minor in good fettle driven steadily will achieve 40mph on a run easily.
And it won't smoke or leak oil.
The Minor is a much better vehicle than the A35.
Some less than 10 year old cars also smoke badly- it's mostly about maintenance.

When the Nissan Leaf reaches 20 years old tell us how reliable and economically viable it still is.
roubaixtuesday
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Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by roubaixtuesday »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 2:58pm When the Nissan Leaf reaches 20 years old tell us how reliable and economically viable it still is.
Seem to be doing quite well - I believe launched in 2011? Here's a 2012 one, £2.5K, 66k miles

Dare I suggest, perhaps rather better than a Minor at similar age and mileage?

https://www.whatcar.com/nissan/leaf/hat ... eview/n823
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by PDQ Mobile »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 3:08pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 2:58pm When the Nissan Leaf reaches 20 years old tell us how reliable and economically viable it still is.
Seem to be doing quite well - I believe launched in 2011? Here's a 2012 one, £2.5K, 66k miles

Dare I suggest, perhaps rather better than a Minor at similar age and mileage?

https://www.whatcar.com/nissan/leaf/hat ... eview/n823
I'll have a dozen.
A new one is nearly 30 grand.

The Minor cost £75 and had a 10ton heavy duty bottle jack in the back( and a proper spare wheel!).
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al_yrpal
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by al_yrpal »

How did we get onto Morris Minors?

Cycling to the top of Nuffield hill I often used to sit in the churchyard and have a jaw with the lord not far from David Frost who laid nearby. The Minor was a masterpiece. A mile away from here lies a Classic renovation business specialising in reviving Minors. There are several others.

As for the valleys, the Taff in flood is awesome surging through the concrete canyon at Pontypridd but Googling doesn't reveal too much worthwhile generation. I didnt know that nearby Taffs Well was thermal despite living nearby for a few years.

I like watching Bangers and Cash which focusses on many marques from the Minor's era. It will become like Steam Trains in these days of diesels and boring electric jobs - hearts will swell when an IC powered vehicle appears and people will stop and gawp....

Al
Reuse, recycle, to save the planet.... Auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Boots. Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can...... Every little helps!
axel_knutt
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 12:20pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by axel_knutt »

Electric share of car sales:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/elec ... AF~IND~SWE

Electric share of cars in use:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/shar ... HN~USA~GBR

Whatever the problems with electric, they don't appear to be hindering Norway much.

Regarding cars in general, regardless of fuel, and other products besides for that matter, what people are clearly getting increasingly hacked off with is the excessive levels of computerisation. Some people simply don't want to have to be computer experts just to make everyday objects work, and I doubt there's any evidence that computerising cars makes any difference at all to the likelihood of the sills rusting, gearbox falling out, or fan belt breaking. It probably does make quite a significant difference to the probability of having to scrap the car because the computer keeps crashing, or electrical fire, or the manufacturers are no longer providing security updates for the software.
Jon in Sweden wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 5:13am I've said it before and I'll say it again. Heat pumps are the best way to heat anything. Fossil fuels are not.
Which is why policy needs to reflect that, instead of fuel tariffs wiping out all the financial benefit of the heat pumps.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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Paulatic
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by Paulatic »

al_yrpal wrote: 24 Feb 2026, 9:07am Various Heat Pump evangalists are telling all and sundry that a heat pump will save you money.
I purchased believing I would save money please check my maths.

Bought 2011 £1300 installed. At a SCOP of only 3:1 I thought after buying £500 of electricity for heating I would then be in profit? With electricity prices as they were then I thought after 4 or 5 years it will have paid for itself. As prices rose I think it came sooner. After paying for itself I’d then be buying electric powered heat a third of the price.
I replaced that machine last year after 14 years it not costing another penny after its purchase. No repair or servicing costs other than an hour of my time washing it down annually.
Replaced with a top of the range, amongst the first in the U.K. to install R290 AC unit at a cost of £2000. A SCOP of 5.2 with my maths I reckon after buying £4-500 of electricity for heating it’s paid for itself as without it that heat would have cost me, with direct electric,£2000. Two winters and it’s surely paid for itself and if it lasts 15 years like the last one it’ll see me out very nicely.
My experience is the old unit (r410) needed help to heat the home below OT 3C . This new one held the indoor temperature at 22C whilst it was -7 C outdoors and not above freezing for days. As for noise often the only way you know the outdoor unit is working is you feel cold air on your legs as you walk by.
The problem AISI is the U.K. obsession with heating up water to then pump around the home. A2A is a lot more efficient and a lot more likely to give most people a realistic return on investment. The installation prices will of course now rise since A2A are eligible for grant.
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https://stcleve.wordpress.com/category/lejog/
E2E info
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Cugel
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by Cugel »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 2:58pm
When the Nissan Leaf reaches 20 years old tell us how reliable and economically viable it still is.
I'll be dead by then, man! :-) Mind, so might everyone else, of weather, brown shirts or the transformation of MAD from a world war preventative policy to a more literal interpretation.

Anyroadup, I'm hoping that if Armageddon or The Apocalypse doesn't appear "real soon now", we'll all be so poor after not much longer that everyone will have become a cyclist, since cars will be affordable only by the 0.1%. I'll probably have to pedal a tricycle by then, though. I may even have to persuade a daughter to pedal me about on one, as I sit in its boot complaining about the potholes and the lack of pace. "When I were a lad, we all went everywhere at 31mph in 52 X 13! Bury yersen!!"
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
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Cugel
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by Cugel »

al_yrpal wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 3:33pm How did we get onto Morris Minors?
You get IN them usually .... although there were students in my day who were silly and rode on the roof or the bonnet of one as a lark, after their one pint a week (all they could afford) on a Friday evening. That wasn't you, was it?

Car fannery - you'd think adults would have got over their Dinky Toy fetish by aged 14 really, eh? But many just bought bigger ones to play with. Could've been out cycling or climbing fells, the dafties, instead of polishing a tin box and letting their legs wither away as they pouted proudly over their P&J, despite the rainbow effects on the road, from the leaks underneath their chrome bomb.

***********

Do you recall the coal man coming 'round with them 1 cwt sacks of the nasty stuff? Some tipped a large heap on to the back lane, which one had to shift in a bucket to the coal hoose, a long job. They often came in a lorry that did 8 miles to the gallon and squashed slow children and grannies 'cos the brakes were so bad. Mind, you could hear it coming from half a mile away, clanking and wheezing and roaring.

I admit that I did enjoy watching the mini-volcanics of a large piece of coal burning merrily in the grate, oozing out tar and gas with orange, purple, yellow and even red flames. I wouldn't do it now, though. Gawd knows how many years it knocked of my life expectancy! I want to get full value from the pension scheme, you know! Also, sunshine is free - that coal wasn't. Cleaning out the grate was also tedious, especially if one's skool uniform got soot smuts on it, which it always did.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Cugel wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 6:43pm
PDQ Mobile wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 2:58pm
When the Nissan Leaf reaches 20 years old tell us how reliable and economically viable it still is.
I'll be dead by then, man! :-) Mind, so might everyone else, of weather, brown shirts or the transformation of MAD from a world war preventative policy to a more literal interpretation.

Anyroadup, I'm hoping that if Armageddon or The Apocalypse doesn't appear "real soon now", we'll all be so poor after not much longer that everyone will have become a cyclist, since cars will be affordable only by the 0.1%. I'll probably have to pedal a tricycle by then, though. I may even have to persuade a daughter to pedal me about on one, as I sit in its boot complaining about the potholes and the lack of pace. "When I were a lad, we all went everywhere at 31mph in 52 X 13! Bury yersen!!"
I can only agree with all of that.
wheelyhappy99
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by wheelyhappy99 »

al_yrpal wrote: 26 Feb 2026, 3:33pm How did we get onto Morris Minors?

Cycling to the top of Nuffield hill I often used to sit in the churchyard and have a jaw with the lord not far from David Frost who laid nearby. The Minor was a masterpiece. A mile away from here lies a Classic renovation business specialising in reviving Minors. There are several others.

As for the valleys, the Taff in flood is awesome surging through the concrete canyon at Pontypridd but Googling doesn't reveal too much worthwhile generation. I didnt know that nearby Taffs Well was thermal despite living nearby for a few years.

I like watching Bangers and Cash which focusses on many marques from the Minor's era. It will become like Steam Trains in these days of diesels and boring electric jobs - hearts will swell when an IC powered vehicle appears and people will stop and gawp....

Al

This is all quite illuminating Al.

Engineers and others technical people seem to have made progress over the centuries by adapting and trying new ways of doing things to improve the things they produce. I assume you did that too. I've been puzzled for some time over how it is that someone with an engineering background ends up apparently convinced that new ways of heating homes or propelling cars don't work and dismissing authoritative reports and evidence to the contrary.
I wonder if this post gives some explanation, examination and evaluation being abandoned in favour nostalgia?
We are living in the second quarter if the 21st century. The 1950/60/70s aren't coming back, however sunny our memories might be.

By the way, on every Morris Minor I have come across the chassis was rusted through next to the rear sprung hangers. And the engines were being rebored at the kind of mileage we've done in our second hand eNiro in the past three years.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by al_yrpal »

how it is that someone with an engineering background ends up apparently convinced that new ways of heating homes or propelling cars don't work and dismissing authoritative reports and evidence to the contrary.
People I know and respect who have heat pumps have cold houses and no satisfaction whatsoever from the installers. I believe thats because the installers they used were incompetent. The Telegraph article quotes accurate costs. The costs are very high and at the moment it seems there is a good chance that one will get a duff installation.

As for electric cars, nothing wrong with them as long as you realise that at the moment you may suffer from range anxiety. All modern cars are eye wateringly expensive and are equipped with daft distracting screens. That made me sell mine and get a more sensible vehicle.

As for the Moggy, I had one, a Mini Clubman, a couple of Maxis, a couple of Montego load luggers, Cortinas,Viva and a series of Mercs. I loved all of them. Yes they rusted except the later ones, most cars did at that time. So what?

Better than a fake MG. Viscount Nuffield, a humble man who never lost his roots would be appalled!

Al
Last edited by al_yrpal on 27 Feb 2026, 11:39am, edited 1 time in total.
Reuse, recycle, to save the planet.... Auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Boots. Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can...... Every little helps!
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