Heat in the home
Re: Heat in the home
I've known some very mouldy homes with single glazed windows and rotten woodwork around them. You do need a certain level of heat to keep mould at bay. Good insulation helps you get there.
- PedallingSquares
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Re: Heat in the home
He did say his mate had not had the heating on since last Winterhorizon wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 3:59pm If ever there was a case for turning the heating off then your mate's house is it. Get the windows open, the air blowing through, winter or not. The heating will simply evaporate the damp and hold it in the air until the next time the heating is off and the air is cold. The worst thing to happen to UK homes was double glazing and plastic windows. Houses need to breathe.
I've only ever seen damp and mould in older houses with single glazed windows and poor or no central heating.It was rife in the old poured-concrete pit houses like the one I grew up in.Many only had coal fires down stairs and upstairs was cold and damp.My dad had an anthracite powered central heating system and double glazing done in the mid 1970s and it transformed the house
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Re: Heat in the home
It’s perfectly simple to have a warm, mould-free house with double, even triple glazing, by making sure that it is properly “trickle vented”, and that there are no places where air sits perfectly still while being humid.The worst thing to happen to UK homes was double glazing and plastic windows. Houses need to breathe.
Not new science, in that Nordic countries have been doing it for well over a century.
Re: Heat in the home
Mould in the home can kill:- https://news.sky.com/story/awaab-ishak- ... d-12750975
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: Heat in the home
Our double glazed, insulated cavity walled home is mostly mould-free, but like most homes there are a few little nooks and crannies where a hint of mould will develop if it isn't wiped with bleach a couple of times a year. I think they are cold spots where condensation can occur. The bleach keeps it away and if you went round the house right now you wouldn't see or smell any mould at all.
- simonineaston
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Re: Heat in the home
Damp and its cheery cousin, mould, is something of a vexed question for those who rent, less so for owner occupiers, I guess because the latter have more agency. It took me a while to get my head round the fact that the interaction between humid air and temp. gradients is closely governed by straightforward physics.
I can see how there's a close link between poverty and damp. I imagine that the lower your budget, the more likely you are to inhabit a smaller dwelling with less volume, meaning the usual sources of humidity (breath from each individual, cooking, washing & drying things) more readily load the air. Additionally, there's less likelihood of the dwelling benefitting from all the tools and methods used by better off folk to deal with damp air. A small cheap extractor, fitted years ago and having long since clogged with dust and detritus isn't going to help. An owner occupier, houseproud, may well fit another or replace it with a bigger unit. A landlord, specially a social landlord, is much more likely not to give a hoot, or not have the budget...
Mix into that, a misunderstanding that certainly isn't restricted by income, of how best to deal with humid air - ie ventilation ventilation and more ventilation! Add a cold winter, further discouraging the occupants from flinging open windows or drying garments outside etc etc and you've got a fairly robust recipe for perma-damp and lots of black mould. It's just physics, albeit with a financial component.
I can see how there's a close link between poverty and damp. I imagine that the lower your budget, the more likely you are to inhabit a smaller dwelling with less volume, meaning the usual sources of humidity (breath from each individual, cooking, washing & drying things) more readily load the air. Additionally, there's less likelihood of the dwelling benefitting from all the tools and methods used by better off folk to deal with damp air. A small cheap extractor, fitted years ago and having long since clogged with dust and detritus isn't going to help. An owner occupier, houseproud, may well fit another or replace it with a bigger unit. A landlord, specially a social landlord, is much more likely not to give a hoot, or not have the budget...
Mix into that, a misunderstanding that certainly isn't restricted by income, of how best to deal with humid air - ie ventilation ventilation and more ventilation! Add a cold winter, further discouraging the occupants from flinging open windows or drying garments outside etc etc and you've got a fairly robust recipe for perma-damp and lots of black mould. It's just physics, albeit with a financial component.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Re: Heat in the home
Had mould once in a rented property. It was because we had a paraffin heater and that produce water vapour as a product of burning.
In my daughters house there was mould in their kitchen. This was eventually solved by putting in a very gentle ventilation system that took in air from the roof and pumped it out via the kitchen.
Our annexe has mould on rising damp near the base of 2 walls. I have just drilled 12mm holes every 120mm along the first mortar joint and inserted Dryrods to form a damp proof course. These rods take about 6 months to release a fluid into the mortar and bricks to prevent damp rising in the walls. The previous owner was not good at keeping the courtyard drains clear and I think that caused it. The surveyor said it would be £5 grand to fix the problem. I am hoping the £250 worth of Dryrods will do the trick. I have some mould spray to clear the existing mould.
Al
In my daughters house there was mould in their kitchen. This was eventually solved by putting in a very gentle ventilation system that took in air from the roof and pumped it out via the kitchen.
Our annexe has mould on rising damp near the base of 2 walls. I have just drilled 12mm holes every 120mm along the first mortar joint and inserted Dryrods to form a damp proof course. These rods take about 6 months to release a fluid into the mortar and bricks to prevent damp rising in the walls. The previous owner was not good at keeping the courtyard drains clear and I think that caused it. The surveyor said it would be £5 grand to fix the problem. I am hoping the £250 worth of Dryrods will do the trick. I have some mould spray to clear the existing mould.
Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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Re: Heat in the home
Mick F.
Mould is dangerous. See the Rochdale coroner's report last week.
Mould grows on damp surfaces. In modern cavity construction most dampness is due to condensation of airborne moisture on the colder internal surfaces. Bathrooms and kitchens are favourites, as are under ventilated rooms and behind furniture against external walls.
The Google image is very helpful. The roof pitch is quite shallow. These are condensation prone themselves, especially if there is a lot of moisture from rooms below, and it keeps it in the building envelope. Hot air rises and all that. I could only see one home with vents in the soffit. Not possible to tell for sure what insulation there is in roof spaces or walls, but unless upgraded it's unlikely to be close to current requirements. Let alone best available. As said upthread, improving that will help.
The windows look to be double glazed, though may not have trickle vents at the top. They can usually be retrofitted.
Ventilating rooms is essential to get moisture out. Opening bedroom windows a bit in the morning allows the moisture we all breathe out overnight to disperse. Ditto after cooking and bathing if there's no extraction.
New homes are pretty much sealed to reduce heat losses, and mechanical ventilation with heat recovery supplies fresh air. The link below is to a specialist supplier of condensation control kit. Maybe worth talking to them. If your friend needs to reduce moisture levels in one or more rooms the single room heat recovery ventilation fans work very well (we have two). Lots of fresh air and low heat loss. Hope this helps.
https://www.condensationshop.com/shop/h ... imaster-hr
Mould is dangerous. See the Rochdale coroner's report last week.
Mould grows on damp surfaces. In modern cavity construction most dampness is due to condensation of airborne moisture on the colder internal surfaces. Bathrooms and kitchens are favourites, as are under ventilated rooms and behind furniture against external walls.
The Google image is very helpful. The roof pitch is quite shallow. These are condensation prone themselves, especially if there is a lot of moisture from rooms below, and it keeps it in the building envelope. Hot air rises and all that. I could only see one home with vents in the soffit. Not possible to tell for sure what insulation there is in roof spaces or walls, but unless upgraded it's unlikely to be close to current requirements. Let alone best available. As said upthread, improving that will help.
The windows look to be double glazed, though may not have trickle vents at the top. They can usually be retrofitted.
Ventilating rooms is essential to get moisture out. Opening bedroom windows a bit in the morning allows the moisture we all breathe out overnight to disperse. Ditto after cooking and bathing if there's no extraction.
New homes are pretty much sealed to reduce heat losses, and mechanical ventilation with heat recovery supplies fresh air. The link below is to a specialist supplier of condensation control kit. Maybe worth talking to them. If your friend needs to reduce moisture levels in one or more rooms the single room heat recovery ventilation fans work very well (we have two). Lots of fresh air and low heat loss. Hope this helps.
https://www.condensationshop.com/shop/h ... imaster-hr
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Re: Heat in the home
Without a heat exchanger, ventilation costs money. Heat goes out with the humid air, and cold comes in with the dry air.simonineaston wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 5:05pmI can see how there's a close link between poverty and damp.
how best to deal with humid air - ie ventilation ventilation and more ventilation!
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Heat in the home
Raising the temperature doesn't remove the water vapour, it just increases the amount of vapour the air can hold. If you don't remove the vapour, increasing the temperaure is just like putting bigger bucket under a leaking pipe: postponing the time when it overflows rather than preventing overflow.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
― Friedrich Nietzsche
Re: Heat in the home
Conversely, lowering the temperature lowers the ability of the air to hold the moisture that it has. I used to play in a derelict farmhouse with smashed windows. The wind howled through. Planty of venting and plenty of mould. Likewise we get mould on the outside surfaces of our motorhome if we don't wipe it down occasioanlly. Mould will form on any cold surface, even a vented one. Our fave place in our house for mould is beside the bedroom windows that are often left open. The most vented part of the rooms and the most prone to mould. Trivial mould, dealt with by wiping down occasionally.axel_knutt wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 5:56pmRaising the temperature doesn't remove the water vapour, it just increases the amount of vapour the air can hold. If you don't remove the vapour, increasing the temperaure is just like putting bigger bucket under a leaking pipe: postponing the time when it overflows rather than preventing overflow.
Some venting is a good idea, as is not letting surfaces get too cold. You need both, and even then there will be the odd area, even if it is just the grouting between shower tiles, where mould arises and needs localised treatment.
Re: Heat in the home
Not much heat though. Ironically, the money saved by a heat exchanger is often not enough to cover the cost of retrofitting one. Cheaper just to heat the cold air taken in with a heat pump.axel_knutt wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 5:44pmWithout a heat exchanger, ventilation costs money. Heat goes out with the humid air, and cold comes in with the dry air.simonineaston wrote: ↑22 Nov 2022, 5:05pmI can see how there's a close link between poverty and damp.
how best to deal with humid air - ie ventilation ventilation and more ventilation!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Heat in the home
Just to add to the conversation, an electric de-Humidifier works really well, move it to any room in the house, plug it in and it will keep on top of any moisture in the air problems, way cheaper than keeping heating on all the time to try and beat it and better than letting moisture laden air in through an always open window. (no matter how small the opening).
Re: Heat in the home
Quite!mei wrote: ↑23 Nov 2022, 11:37am Just to add to the conversation, an electric de-Humidifier works really well, move it to any room in the house, plug it in and it will keep on top of any moisture in the air problems, way cheaper than keeping heating on all the time to try and beat it and better than letting moisture laden air in through an always open window. (no matter how small the opening).
This was effectively demonstrated to me when a customer some 30 years ago when they placed their own dehumidifier in an extension I'd just finished in the middle of a wet winter,I was taken by surprise just how quick it dried out the freshly plastered 5x3m room,so much so I bought one for the next job.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Re: Heat in the home
Just done the meter readings for the month.
Compared to last year, our November usage (well, late Oct to Late Nov) of Gas is around half the volume.
We heat water, the house and the hob with Gas.
Obvious variables - warmer weather, turning it down, having it on for less, a bit of extra draftproofing.
Less obvious - taking my showers at the golf club and the gym...
Compared to last year, our November usage (well, late Oct to Late Nov) of Gas is around half the volume.
We heat water, the house and the hob with Gas.
Obvious variables - warmer weather, turning it down, having it on for less, a bit of extra draftproofing.
Less obvious - taking my showers at the golf club and the gym...