Heat in the home

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

My central heating is set for what range?

I don't have central heating
8
13%
below 18
22
36%
18-20
24
39%
21-22
2
3%
23-25
2
3%
25-plus
3
5%
 
Total votes: 61

Biospace
Posts: 2008
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Biospace »

Mick F wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 2:26pm Chatting to a business owner today, and he has done his sums. I know him well, and I understand him.

When the electricity prices go up through the roof next month, he's buying a diesel generator.
Cheaper to run, than buy lecky off the grid.
Cheaper than investing in solar panels.

Sad, but true.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in this sphere, as a diesel gas generator (especially if running mainly on natural gas) could give a significant saving if well matched to a reasonably steady demand.

I've known farmers use diesel generators for periods of high demand (such as drying of grain) because the savings more than paid for the generator, plus there's the benefit of a backup electricity supply.
Pebble
Posts: 1934
Joined: 7 Jun 2020, 11:59pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Pebble »

axel_knutt wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 5:12pm
Pebble wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 2:56pm
Mick F wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 2:26pm Chatting to a business owner today, and he has done his sums. I know him well, and I understand him.

When the electricity prices go up through the roof next month, he's buying a diesel generator.
Cheaper to run, than buy lecky off the grid.
Cheaper than investing in solar panels.

Sad, but true.
doubt he has done his sums propery. small 5kw one will use 3 litres per hour, if you coud buy red diesel thats about £1 per litre. So it would be costing about 60p per kwh (and that is assuming you use all of it)(and doesnt include the cost of buying one) . Domestic electric is going to be capped at 35p (don't know what commercial rates are)

This reminds me, I have a 2 stroke genny (0.75kw) should dig that out and see if it stills runs, could be handy this winter when we start having blackouts.
6kW @ 1L/hr

Red diesel @ 101.77p/L

101.77/6 = 17p/kWh, half the new price cap of 34p/kWh at full power, but there's no information on fuel consumption below that.
I think 1 litre per hour must be running with no load (hence up to 30 hours on a 30 litre tank) I would be suprised if it did much better than 2to3 per hour fully loaded.

I think the rule of thumb is 0.4l per kwh - so 6kwh would be 2.4 an hour. and I would think you have a good'n if it is achieving that,
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Mick F
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Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Mick F »

He reckoned he could buy a generator for £1,500 - cheaper than solar panels.
Remember it's a business, and afaik, the energy cap isn't applicable.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
Posts: 24636
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 9:27am He reckoned he could buy a generator for £1,500 - cheaper than solar panels.
Remember it's a business, and afaik, the energy cap isn't applicable.
There's a six month scheme for businesses:

"A new six-month scheme for businesses and other non-domestic energy users (including charities and public sector organisations like schools) will offer equivalent support as is being provided for consumers. This will protect them from soaring energy costs and provide them with the certainty they need to plan their business.
"After this initial six-month scheme, the Government will provide ongoing, focused support for vulnerable industries. There will be a review in 3 months’ time to consider where this should be targeted to make sure those most in need get support."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... rgy-market

Jonathan
ANTONISH
Posts: 2967
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 9:49am

Re: Heat in the home

Post by ANTONISH »

I had a message on my mobile phone from "GOVUK" telling me that I was entitled to a discount.
I'm sure this was a scam and deleted it.
Jdsk
Posts: 24636
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Jdsk »

ANTONISH wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 9:49am I had a message on my mobile phone from "GOVUK" telling me that I was entitled to a discount.
I'm sure this was a scam and deleted it.
Very wise:
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/ ... nt-text-o/
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/avoid-and-report-energy-scams

Jonathan
mei
Posts: 18
Joined: 30 Apr 2014, 10:44am
Location: CYMRU

Re: Heat in the home

Post by mei »

Very interesting reading all the previous pages, in regards to a valid point raised about wood burners polluting neighbour´s ¨air¨ may I throw in my particular (no pun intended) situation.
I live in a very small terrace (semi rural) with houses both sides and I have exterior insulation on the outside walls, insulated plasterboard interior, reasonable loft insulation and windows/doors that meet the current building regs. Central heating is on 47kg gas bottles and I have a 5kw woodburner.
I use the CH less than 20 hours a year and manage to heat the house with just the woodburner, wood is industrial wood waste (dry,pine, no paint) and I manage to collect all I need from work so no extra journeys in it´s collection. I am aware that I am contributing to general/local air pollution with the woodburner but how clear cut is any comparison to other methods of heating, one neighbour burns coal almost all year round (AGA type stove) and the other uses heating oil in a 30 year old boiler. If I was to stop the woodburning and just use Gas bottles is it that much better versus the refining of the gas, delivery by diesel lorry multiple times per winter and waste fumes by the boiler? Electric probably (theoretically) could be the cleanest of all but I would need to change the CH in the house. is there really that much in it at the end of the day? I´m not looking to justify my woodburning but am interested in others take on it.
P.S Thick socks and good jumpers are my friends over the winters. :D
Biospace
Posts: 2008
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Biospace »

mei wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 1:11pm Very interesting reading all the previous pages, in regards to a valid point raised about wood burners polluting neighbour´s ¨air¨ may I throw in my particular (no pun intended) situation.
I live in a very small terrace (semi rural) with houses both sides and I have exterior insulation on the outside walls, insulated plasterboard interior, reasonable loft insulation and windows/doors that meet the current building regs. Central heating is on 47kg gas bottles and I have a 5kw woodburner.
I use the CH less than 20 hours a year and manage to heat the house with just the woodburner, wood is industrial wood waste (dry,pine, no paint) and I manage to collect all I need from work so no extra journeys in it´s collection. I am aware that I am contributing to general/local air pollution with the woodburner but how clear cut is any comparison to other methods of heating, one neighbour burns coal almost all year round (AGA type stove) and the other uses heating oil in a 30 year old boiler. If I was to stop the woodburning and just use Gas bottles is it that much better versus the refining of the gas, delivery by diesel lorry multiple times per winter and waste fumes by the boiler? Electric probably (theoretically) could be the cleanest of all but I would need to change the CH in the house. is there really that much in it at the end of the day? I´m not looking to justify my woodburning but am interested in others take on it.
P.S Thick socks and good jumpers are my friends over the winters. :D

There are two aspects of pollution in these discussions, one on a neighbour level, the other on a global level.

If you and your neighbours aren't being bothered by your flue outputs then fine. There are some locations and atmospheric conditions which can concentrate smoke pollution from chimneys and flues, others where the pollution carries on up and away. There has been at least one succesful court case taken against a neighbour whose smoke was affecting a neighbour's health.

From the planet's perspective, bottled gas delivered by a lorry and being burned in an older design (serviced/running correctly) of boiler is likely to result in few less black dots on Arctic snow than wood burning, which the scientists judge to be as much of a factor in AGW as CO2, but burning of waste wood (no paint, varnish, ply or other engineered 'wood' etc) which results in no increase in road miles has to be a highly efficient way of heating your home. Together with insulating yourself rather than having a whole house at 18C+ in cold weather surely makes your household as one of the more efficient and lower polluting. :mrgreen:

Burning coal spews a particularly nasty cloud of toxins into the air, although in its mitigation it can reduce the frequency of a stove's cycles, emissions are at their highest just after a stove has been reloaded. I can't think of anything else about coal burning which is positive, it's nasty stuff.

https://www.indoordoctor.com/blog/not-b ... fireplace/
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853
Posts: 261
Joined: 23 Sep 2022, 6:01pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by 853 »

Biospace wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 3:12pm This is the time of year when passive solar heating starts to work really well, if there are sunny or partially sunny days. Some go as far as the 'Trombe wall', https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_s ... lar_system
Thanks for reminding me of this. I did look into it a bit a few years ago when energy prices were a lot, lot, cheaper, and it didn't appear to be worth pursuing. With the prices as they are, however, I'm going to re-look at it.

I won't go as far as a Trombe wall, because I'll effectively lose a window, but I am considering an insulated, south-facing, cold-frame to heat up bricks which could then be brought inside to dissipate their heat. Only worthwhile in sunny to very sunny days, which we do get a few of over the winter, so worth some experimentation
pwa
Posts: 17366
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by pwa »

8 cubic metres of firewood delivered today. So come what may, we won't freeze this winter. Even if we have a power cut.
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Mick F
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Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Mick F »

Which wood?

We maybe have a cubic mtr on the hearth at the moment.
Fire not lit for a few days. Mixture of birch, hazel, oak, scrap pine leftover from the old decking joists including nails and screws, and some wood I don't know.

Ready for sawing up, is some ash, sycamore, oak and cherry. All windfalls broken off from the trees in our woodland all maybe two inches to six inches thick. Maybe a cubic mtr or more of it all.
Mick F. Cornwall
pwa
Posts: 17366
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by pwa »

Mick F wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 6:54pm Which wood?

We maybe have a cubic mtr on the hearth at the moment.
Fire not lit for a few days. Mixture of birch, hazel, oak, scrap pine leftover from the old decking joists including nails and screws, and some wood I don't know.

Ready for sawing up, is some ash, sycamore, oak and cherry. All windfalls broken off from the trees in our woodland all maybe two inches to six inches thick. Maybe a cubic mtr or more of it all.
It is chunky softwood from large diameter conifers sawn up by a local carpentry business. At one time I burned only hardwood and my understanding was that softwood was a poorer option, burning too quickly. But since buying from this supplier my views have changed. He supplies extremely well dried and chunky wood that burns in a way that isn't much different to well dried hardwood. I can put wood in the stove and not need to think about putting more on for ages. It is always bone dry, with no hissing. When we let the fire die down late in the evening it will have active embers for a couple of hours at least. So a little wood goes a long way.
Ben@Forest
Posts: 3647
Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 5:58pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Ben@Forest »

Mick F wrote: 26 Sep 2022, 6:54pm We maybe have a cubic mtr on the hearth at the moment.
Fire not lit for a few days. Mixture of birch, hazel, oak, scrap pine leftover from the old decking joists including nails and screws, and some wood I don't know.
That's some hearth especially as (unless it's nearly all squared) it's almost impossible to stack 1m x 1m x 1m as a cube. And even a neat stack of logs is only about 70% volume of timber - around 30% is the air in between each log.
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Mick F
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Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Mick F »

The hearth to the left of the fire is maybe 6ft long and wood can be stacked neatly up to 3 or 4ft high.
Rarely bother with that much at one time though.
Mick F. Cornwall
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Mick F
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Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Mick F »

Just found this! :D

1980s at our last place - just up the road.
The girls are in the mid/late 40s now.

Coal fired fire.
Coal Fire.jpg
Mick F. Cornwall
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