Heat in the home

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

My central heating is set for what range?

I don't have central heating
8
13%
below 18
22
37%
18-20
23
38%
21-22
2
3%
23-25
2
3%
25-plus
3
5%
 
Total votes: 60

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Heat in the home

Post by mjr »

rjb wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 2:30pm Anybody here been invited to join the demand flexibility scheme to get paid for reducing their consumption. I've not been invited despite having a Smets 2 smart meter.
I get the impression that those who are being invited are the profligate users at the expense of those who have already reduced their consumption.
Not invited, but I simply clicked the opt-in button in my electricity account online. The scheme seems set up to reward load shifting more than profligacy, with the payment formula rewarding energy use between one and four hours before the reduction window.

It did take about three months from smart meter installation to the opt in button appearing, which surprised me.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
853
Posts: 256
Joined: 23 Sep 2022, 6:01pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by 853 »

Jon in Sweden wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 5:40pm ... We were in Devon previously and our house was crap, but here in Sweden, we often have weeks at a time of sub zero temperatures and it has no affect on the internal temperature, other than that our electricity bill goes up a bit.

We just need to massively upgrade the insulation on our houses in the UK. There is nothing else for it.
I don't disagree with this. Can you please tell us what insulation your house in Sweden has, and what the standards are for newly built houses over there? I'm interested, (and I am sure many other people are too), because I'd like to know what we should be doing in the UK to insulate our houses to Swedish standards.

Thanks
Jon in Sweden
Posts: 610
Joined: 22 May 2022, 12:53pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Jon in Sweden »

853 wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 7:11pm
Jon in Sweden wrote: 24 Jan 2023, 5:40pm ... We were in Devon previously and our house was crap, but here in Sweden, we often have weeks at a time of sub zero temperatures and it has no affect on the internal temperature, other than that our electricity bill goes up a bit.

We just need to massively upgrade the insulation on our houses in the UK. There is nothing else for it.
I don't disagree with this. Can you please tell us what insulation your house in Sweden has, and what the standards are for newly built houses over there? I'm interested, (and I am sure many other people are too), because I'd like to know what we should be doing in the UK to insulate our houses to Swedish standards.

Thanks
I will investigate! My wife is an architect (though British), and I'm sure we can find some details on the standards here.

Our house's heat requirement is about 60kwh/square metre (which is half the regs for UK new builds, but our house is 66 years old). It is in effect much lower than that as the heat pumps we have run at a coefficient of performance of 3-4.4 Most of our heat comes from the ground source (which is 4.4) so I think overall, our heat usage is 16kwh/square metre, or about 7 times better than UK regs.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Heat in the home

Post by mjr »

Has anyone here retrofitted underfloor heating, what to and at what sort of cost per whatever, please? Would you do it again?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
reohn2
Posts: 45143
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by reohn2 »

mjr wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 2:13pm Has anyone here retrofitted underfloor heating, what to and at what sort of cost per whatever, please? Would you do it again?
My roofer who I've known for 30 years told me he fitted it in his extension and has been very disappointed with the result
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Jdsk
Posts: 24480
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Jdsk »

mjr wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 2:13pm Has anyone here retrofitted underfloor heating, what to and at what sort of cost per whatever, please? Would you do it again?
We fitted some to an old house about 12 years ago. Water circulating off a new gas boiler. About half of the ground floor, some new build, some where new floor was needed anyway. Three rooms with their own thermostats off a manifold.

Works fine, big gain is not having radiators. Have to remember the slow response compared to radiators.

One failure: part of a controller on the manifold.

Sorry, can't extract the cost from the rest of the total renovation project.

We'd do the same again.

Jonathan
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Heat in the home

Post by mjr »

Jdsk wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 2:32pm
mjr wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 2:13pm Has anyone here retrofitted underfloor heating, what to and at what sort of cost per whatever, please? Would you do it again?
We fitted some to an old house about 12 years ago. Water circulating off a new gas boiler. About half of the ground floor, some new build, some where new floor was needed anyway.
Thanks for the info. So what type of floors are they, please? Concrete slab, suspended wood, special stuff for heating, ...?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Jdsk
Posts: 24480
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Jdsk »

mjr wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 3:14pm
Jdsk wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 2:32pm
mjr wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 2:13pm Has anyone here retrofitted underfloor heating, what to and at what sort of cost per whatever, please? Would you do it again?
We fitted some to an old house about 12 years ago. Water circulating off a new gas boiler. About half of the ground floor, some new build, some where new floor was needed anyway.
Thanks for the info. So what type of floors are they, please? Concrete slab, suspended wood, special stuff for heating, ...?
New extension was concrete, designed from scratch for the underfloor piping. Tiled.

One room was rotten concrete (with an unsuspected well), needed new concrete anyway. Carpeted.

One room was concrete and OK, but we wanted engineered wood floorboards so had to be dug down.

Jonathan
Biospace
Posts: 1990
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Biospace »

reohn2 wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 2:22pm My roofer who I've known for 30 years told me he fitted it in his extension and has been very disappointed with the result
I'd suggest something's wrong, either with the installation or the way it's being used although I would expect a practical person to be using it correctly and have made sure it was put in well. Odd.

Heating up a large mass to 25C-35C is a very efficient way of heating a space, even better when this mass is the floor. The Korean Ondol, Roman Hypocaust and Spanish Gloria all made good use of this heating, however it requires a very different user approach which can take some getting used to. Having thermostats with both floor and air sensors is vital if you're going to use thermostatic control of temperatures, even then it can take some fine tuning to get things spot on.

Many modern heating systems connect to the internet to help plan ahead, I find it more effective to do it manually - simply switching on for a pre-determined time as necessary, having looked at the forecasts and guesstimated the solar gain for our SW-facing living and kitchen area. It's far less fun than lighting a fire, with far more to go wrong - I miss warming up chopping kindling and splitting logs.
reohn2
Posts: 45143
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by reohn2 »

Biospace wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 4:10pm
reohn2 wrote: 25 Jan 2023, 2:22pm My roofer who I've known for 30 years told me he fitted it in his extension and has been very disappointed with the result
I'd suggest something's wrong, either with the installation or the way it's being used although I would expect a practical person to be using it correctly and have made sure it was put in well. Odd.
We didn't talk much about it,he just mentioned it in passing really so I didn't pursue it,yes he is a a very practical and knowledge person,no stone jug IMHO.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Biospace
Posts: 1990
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Biospace »

reohn2 wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 5:30pm We didn't talk much about it,he just mentioned it in passing really so I didn't pursue it,yes he is a a very practical and knowledge person,no stone jug IMHO.
I've met a few who simply couldn't get on with UFH, especially in a well insulated house where there is relatively little feeling of radiation. Not having access to 'instant' heat and heat which lasts a day or more in the floor can be a problem for some - a little more planning for heating inputs is required.
reohn2
Posts: 45143
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by reohn2 »

Biospace wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 5:41pm
reohn2 wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 5:30pm We didn't talk much about it,he just mentioned it in passing really so I didn't pursue it,yes he is a a very practical and knowledge person,no stone jug IMHO.
I've met a few who simply couldn't get on with UFH, especially in a well insulated house where there is relatively little feeling of radiation. Not having access to 'instant' heat and heat which lasts a day or more in the floor can be a problem for some - a little more planning for heating inputs is required.
Possibly,though I've no experience or knowledge of UFH :?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20297
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Heat in the home

Post by mjr »

Biospace wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 5:41pm
reohn2 wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 5:30pm We didn't talk much about it,he just mentioned it in passing really so I didn't pursue it,yes he is a a very practical and knowledge person,no stone jug IMHO.
I've met a few who simply couldn't get on with UFH, especially in a well insulated house where there is relatively little feeling of radiation. Not having access to 'instant' heat and heat which lasts a day or more in the floor can be a problem for some - a little more planning for heating inputs is required.
Hi. Is there some reason why one can't use more "instant" heat if an underfloor system is installed? Or do you just mean that they ripped out their gas fires and threw away their other heaters when they installed it?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Biospace
Posts: 1990
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Biospace »

mjr wrote: 26 Jan 2023, 5:56pm Hi. Is there some reason why one can't use more "instant" heat if an underfloor system is installed? Or do you just mean that they ripped out their gas fires and threw away their other heaters when they installed it?
Secondary heating is perfect if the UFH hasn't yet brought a room to a comfortable temperature, definitely.
Biospace
Posts: 1990
Joined: 24 Jun 2019, 12:23pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Biospace »

As someone who now lives with UFH for 99% of our 'set fire to it' space heating, it's a shock coming from an old house which had its slightly unconventional heating systems installed and designed by me - anyone remember my description of the Army M67 in the greenhouse feeding radiators or the best part of a tonne of bricks surrounding the metal woodburner to capture and slowly release otherwise lost radiation?

I miss the intense, bone-warming radiation of the woodstove which would cure anything this side of frostbite within minutes (but lack of it makes those first hot rays of sunshine in April even more precious), of the total control of cooking on wood (I hate the induction hob and miss preparing kindling from a variety of wood all with different qualities), the feeling of a house coming up to temperature from roaring flames and the freshness and cleanliness of the air with draughts.

Houses used to rely on the mass of the structure for insulation, now we have plastic insulation with concrete floors and stone worktops (yuck) forming the heat storage - which can make things feel very cold even when internal temperatures are quite reasonable. In prolonged summer heat (which is what the global warmists promise us more and more of) many modern builds become uncomfortable days before older properties.

Someday I will build or modify a house to how I'd really like it, perhaps a hefty wooden frame with mud and straw infill for walls and the heat mass storage around a central fire, probably a form of rocket mass heater, with solar heating optimised for when the sun is at a low angle. There'll be no plastic liner to prevent 'breathing', in a mild, breezy climate we don't need such extreme measures - mould is more dangerous than a few cooler corners.
Post Reply