Heat in the home

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

My central heating is set for what range?

I don't have central heating
8
13%
below 18
22
37%
18-20
23
38%
21-22
2
3%
23-25
2
3%
25-plus
3
5%
 
Total votes: 60

User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Cugel »

reohn2 wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 1:10pm
al_yrpal wrote: 28 Jan 2023, 6:05pm

Franco, like you my home has to have a bit of character, I couldnt live in a featureless box.........

Al
You could,it's just that you and Mrs Al can afford not to.
That's not a criticism of you and Mrs Al,many people have many dreams of the house they'd like but can't afford and so they compromise.
Four years ago we moved from an ex-council house of the late 1940s vintage into a recently-build eco-house in West Wales. We spent years before the move looking at houses for sale in West Wales and drew up a features-list to try and inform our looking - aspects we felt the newly-bought house should have.

One of these features was "a good performance with energy use" meaning good heat retention, efficient heating & other energy systems; and somewhere from which we wouldn't have to drive a lot. Another was, "an Arts & Crafts style house from between the wars".

There are some very nice looking A&C houses around West Wales. Some have been very well preserved and enhanced. All of them have terrible heating problems, because of the way they're made (low heat retention) and because of often antiquated heating systems (oil, propane bottles and wood burning being prevalent, as there's little mains gas supply out west).

The house we bought looks like one of Al's "boxes" from the outside, being a wood-framed rectangular building clad in cementitious board with multiple vapour and heat barriers between the inner plasterboard walls and the outer cementitious boards. Inside, everything is classic Arts & Crafts of various British styles, a lot of it made by me. The views through the large windows are also superbe. The garden is large and another true living space in the warmer months.

******
So, no regrets at not having chosen a classic A&C house. No regrets especially about the ability, in the eco house, to be always warm at no cost at all. The solar panels & batteries, along with an inherited FiT tariff for half of the solar panels mean we are paid to use electricity rather than the other way around. And the house is all-electric, from water-bore pump to heat pump to cooking to car charging.

**********
Nostalgia for chocolate box top houses of pretty traditional aspect is understandable, in our culture. But highly impractical. And expensive to buy and run.

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 11527
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Think Cheddar and Cider
Contact:

Re: Heat in the home

Post by al_yrpal »

Yes, if you are a bit of an eco warrior I can understand wanting an eco house, its top of your list. But, what you fail to understand is that people are not all eco warriors. You are smug about the place you chose, so are we but I wouldnt swap for all the tea in China. I could make a long list as to why...

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
User avatar
simonineaston
Posts: 7993
Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
Location: ...at a cricket ground

Re: Heat in the home

Post by simonineaston »

people are not all eco warriors.
What is odd, considering the stakes and the potential outcomes, is that we are not... I understand though that humans aren't very good at assessing risk - a failed experiment perhaps? I won't miss them.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Jon in Sweden
Posts: 610
Joined: 22 May 2022, 12:53pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Jon in Sweden »

al_yrpal wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 4:00pm Yes, if you are a bit of an eco warrior I can understand wanting an eco house, its top of your list. But, what you fail to understand is that people are not all eco warriors. You are smug about the place you chose, so are we but I wouldnt swap for all the tea in China. I could make a long list as to why...

Al
But for all the historic significance, artistic flair and oldie-worldie charm, a house is primarily a shelter in its function. It should be warm, comfortable and healthy. It shouldn't be wasteful with energy.

I think that now, almost 25 years into the 21st century, we're past the point of being able to justify buildings that haemorrhage heat. 100 years ago, internal temperatures in winter were far, far lower than they are now. You can't apply 21st century living standards to 19th century tech.
roubaixtuesday
Posts: 5801
Joined: 18 Aug 2015, 7:05pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Mirror, mirror on the wall
Who is the smuggest of them all?
User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Cugel »

al_yrpal wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 4:00pm Yes, if you are a bit of an eco warrior I can understand wanting an eco house, its top of your list. But, what you fail to understand is that people are not all eco warriors. You are smug about the place you chose, so are we but I wouldnt swap for all the tea in China. I could make a long list as to why...

Al
Ha ha - I understand all too well that many people are, well .... people. What other animal but ourselves performs so many daft acts against its own interests, eh? Some are so daft that they vote for Brexit and Tory, for example! Can you believe that!!? Living in a damp and cold olde delapidator is but a minor foible compared to that.

I would like to be a proper eco-warrior but I'm far too soft and lazy. This is no better, in practice, than being too daft to pursue one's own interests and those of others who we all need to provide that support you may condemn as some sort of commie plot. :-) Anyroadup, I leave it to Greta to do the warrior stuff as she is quite good at deflating pompous posturing loons intent on doing various dangerous damages to themselves and others. "Blah, blah, blah", as she so succinctly put it.

Soon, all our blethrings here will become moot, as those "events, dear boy" Macmillan was so leery of occur. Eco house or crumbling pile of mouldering old brick and lath will all be done away with by weather, plague or even a big dose of Putin radiotherapy. In the interim, I shall sit smugly and snuggly in this 'ere hoose, gazing at the splendid views and worrying about you contracting pneumonia despite your Aldi-suit and brass bed warmers. Turn that thermostat up, man! :-)

Cugel
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Cugel »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 4:47pm Mirror, mirror on the wall
Who is the smuggest of them all?
Me, me, me! :-)

Cugel, smug meter needle bouncing off the + stop.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Cugel »

simonineaston wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 4:06pm
people are not all eco warriors.
What is odd, considering the stakes and the potential outcomes, is that we are not... I understand though that humans aren't very good at assessing risk - a failed experiment perhaps? I won't miss them.
It's not unlikely that none of us will be there to miss the others who aren't there either. And the microbes may or may not miss us, depending on how long the corpses last that will sustain them for a bit.

Perhaps Elon and Vladimir will be OK down in their bunkers for a while? Until one or the other decides the other has too much of "his" planet so eliminates the rival with a rocket or two. Elon may instead go to Mars but won't last long there as the Martians have Mekon to look after their interests and Elon is no Dan Dare.

Cugel, a boomer resource-wasting criminal like many others here.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 11527
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Think Cheddar and Cider
Contact:

Re: Heat in the home

Post by al_yrpal »

Well, so far this ole pile has endured 224 winters housing 22 sets of occupants. I very much doubt that an eco box will do half that with the attendant massive carbon emissions of a total rebuild. Anyway, the best eco location is in a community where car and delivery van use is largely unecessary. Here endeth the first lesson.....

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
reohn2
Posts: 45143
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 3:33pm Surprisingly, as to the affording bit, our mini mansion cost about 75% of the price of a modern house of the same floor area so it was by no means expensive. I must admit that I dont understand why? I can only assume that the majority of folk dont want an old house because it possibly needs work and is expensive to live in and maintain?

Anyway, better than inhabiting a featureless box named after a commie rag in the middle of nowhere ..... No.......:lol:

Al
Does that cost include renovation work?
And does it cost less to heat to a comfortable level?
Commie rag? :?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 11527
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Think Cheddar and Cider
Contact:

Re: Heat in the home

Post by al_yrpal »

reohn2 wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 5:51pm
al_yrpal wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 3:33pm Surprisingly, as to the affording bit, our mini mansion cost about 75% of the price of a modern house of the same floor area so it was by no means expensive. I must admit that I dont understand why? I can only assume that the majority of folk dont want an old house because it possibly needs work and is expensive to live in and maintain?

Anyway, better than inhabiting a featureless box named after a commie rag in the middle of nowhere ..... No.......:lol:

Al
Does that cost include revovation work?
Yes, the surveyors estimate to put it right was £65k, apart from redecorating inside we spent only £21k and about £6k of that was a rip off. Unfortunately if you want things like roofing done quickly when water is pouring in you have little choice.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
reohn2
Posts: 45143
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by reohn2 »

Al I suspect we were typing at the same time when I added two more questions to my post
You surprise me that your house was so cheap especially including the renovations,many people are afraid of house renovation especially if they have a family,moreso one needing leaking roof repairs and as you say a £65k estimate would be enought to put most people buying it.A grade 2 lising would also be a further frightener for most.
I'm struggling with Commie rag :?
And is your house as efficient to heat,say for a family of four to the same standard as a morden house?

"Eco boxes" as you call them aren't built to last the same length of time as perhaps your house and I agree some new build by the big builders are pretty bad though not all new build are,though they're built for far more efficient living.

EDITED for clarity.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
User avatar
al_yrpal
Posts: 11527
Joined: 25 Jul 2007, 9:47pm
Location: Think Cheddar and Cider
Contact:

Re: Heat in the home

Post by al_yrpal »

The £21k was...

£12k roofing repairs and enhancements
£3.5k painting all the outside
£2.5k ceilings
£3k kitchen worktop, extra handrail, damp proofing.

In addition we have spent about £7k so far restoring mouldings, decorating and tiling. In spite of that it was IMO still a bargain.

It has 3 bedrooms, the main house is about 1500 sq ft. We have an unheated 350 sq ft 2 story annexe which we use for hobbies. My estimate for annual energy costs this year is £3k. Last months bill was £480 but it drops to about £100 or less in the summer. I think one could cut the annual energy bill by £500 by switching off the Aga.....over the Mrs's dead body. For the age style and size of house I dont think the energy bill is too bad. We could spend £7k on secondary glazing but we think it will spoil the interior and our views of the garden. We saved many thousands by buying in the stamp duty holiday. :D

I think I sent you details once...

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 5430
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Heat in the home

Post by Cugel »

reohn2 wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 6:16pm Al I suspect we were typing at the same time when I added two more questions to my post
You surprise me that your house was so cheap especially including the renovations,many people are afraid of house renovation especially if they have a family,moreso one needing leaking roof repairs and as you say a £65k estimate would be enought to put most people buying it.A grade 2 lising would also be a further frightener for most.
I'm struggling with Commie rag :?
And is your house as efficient to heat,say for a family of four to the same standard as a morden house?

"Eco boxes" as you call them aren't built to last the same length of time as perhaps your house and I agree some new build by the big builders are pretty bad though not all new build are,though they're built for far more efficient living.

EDITED for clarity.
How much would it cost to build a Georgian house today? Could it be done and include eco-features? I suspect such hooses exist in them footballer estates and places where tax-avoiders live with horses and classic cars. :-)

I can grok Arts & Crafts houses, since they were a first attempt to build both beautiful and practical abodes. (As practical as the technologies of those times allowed, at least). Why anyone likes Georgian or Victorian folderols and fiddlefaddles on a house is beyond me. Like wedding cakes gone wrong! Or lunatic asylums on a smaller scale. :-)

Cugel, a fellow of taste and discernment, unlike King George and that Victoria.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
reohn2
Posts: 45143
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Heat in the home

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote: 29 Jan 2023, 7:36pm The £21k was...

£12k roofing repairs and enhancements
£3.5k painting all the outside
£2.5k ceilings
£3k kitchen worktop, extra handrail, damp proofing.

In addition we have spent about £7k so far restoring mouldings, decorating and tiling. In spite of that it was IMO still a bargain.

It has 3 bedrooms, the main house is about 1500 sq ft. We have an unheated 350 sq ft 2 story annexe which we use for hobbies. My estimate for annual energy costs this year is £3k. Last months bill was £480 but it drops to about £100 or less in the summer. I think one could cut the annual energy bill by £500 by switching off the Aga.....over the Mrs's dead body. For the age style and size of house I dont think the energy bill is too bad. We could spend £7k on secondary glazing but we think it will spoil the interior and our views of the garden. We saved many thousands by buying in the stamp duty holiday. :D

I think I sent you details once...

Al
Thanks for the breakdown details,yes I seem to recall you posting it on thread sometime ago.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Post Reply