Heat in the home

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

My central heating is set for what range?

I don't have central heating
8
13%
below 18
22
37%
18-20
23
38%
21-22
2
3%
23-25
2
3%
25-plus
3
5%
 
Total votes: 60

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al_yrpal
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by al_yrpal »

How much would it cost to build a Georgian house today? Could it be done and include eco-features?
Local friends did just that. Huge double glazed sliding sashes, loads of insulation everywhere. A beautiful masonry entrance with columns and a pediment. Lots of solar panels cleverly hidden away on the roof. And a huge annexe from which they run a business. Apparently it costs only £60 per annum to heat. However maintaining a comfortable temperature in their bedrooms in the summer is impossible and a/c is being considered. Those Georgians knew a thing or two and we have no such problems with our 11 ft ceilings, and 9ft sliding sashes.

Style is a matter of personal preference. I suppose you can always look at your nice view rather than back at your blot on the landscape. Ivy might help.... :D

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Ben@Forest
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by Ben@Forest »

al_yrpal wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 7:30am However maintaining a comfortable temperature in their bedrooms in the summer is impossible and a/c is being considered.
We put in around the recommended level of loft insulation (300mm) into an 1850s farm labourer's cottage. When it snows you can see how quickly the snow on our neighbour's roof melts compared to ours - all good. But frankly the upstairs rooms are too hot in the summer, especially notable last summer. I can't see how the insulation has been 'improperly' laid so do wonder if the 'insulation will keep the warmth in but slow the movement of heat in high temperatures' is actually true.
francovendee
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by francovendee »

I think if we all lived in modern highly efficient houses It would be better for the planet but we'd lose a lot from the charm of old places improving the landscape.
A friend bought part of a Georgian manor house years back that had numerous problems that was being sold by the estate. He had his builder take a look and give him an estimate for the work. It came to 25% of the asking price. He made an offer reflecting this and it was accepted. It cost him half of the builders estimate to make it into a lovely house.
If you buy a period house all done up in perfect condition then you'll pay top price but as my friend and al_yrpal found out there are bargains to be had if you're prepared to take a chance.

Nothing against those living in a box without much character but thank goodness for pretty houses.
Nobody stops to admire a row of houses built in the 60's to present day, unlike the pretty villages that are part of the UK.
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al_yrpal
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by al_yrpal »

Ben@Forest wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 8:34am
al_yrpal wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 7:30am However maintaining a comfortable temperature in their bedrooms in the summer is impossible and a/c is being considered.
We put in around the recommended level of loft insulation (300mm) into an 1850s farm labourer's cottage. When it snows you can see how quickly the snow on our neighbour's roof melts compared to ours - all good. But frankly the upstairs rooms are too hot in the summer, especially notable last summer. I can't see how the insulation has been 'improperly' laid so do wonder if the 'insulation will keep the warmth in but slow the movement of heat in high temperatures' is actually true.
Ben, we have 270mm of loft insulation here and even in the heat of last summer upstairs remained tolerable. I think this is due to very high ceilings and the ability to pull down the upper sliding sash and crack the lower one thus creating a cooling airflow. Apart from snapping sash cords sashes are wonderful windows for great ventilation.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Ben@Forest
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by Ben@Forest »

al_yrpal wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 9:16am
Ben@Forest wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 8:34am
al_yrpal wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 7:30am However maintaining a comfortable temperature in their bedrooms in the summer is impossible and a/c is being considered.
We put in around the recommended level of loft insulation (300mm) into an 1850s farm labourer's cottage. When it snows you can see how quickly the snow on our neighbour's roof melts compared to ours - all good. But frankly the upstairs rooms are too hot in the summer, especially notable last summer. I can't see how the insulation has been 'improperly' laid so do wonder if the 'insulation will keep the warmth in but slow the movement of heat in high temperatures' is actually true.
Ben, we have 270mm of loft insulation here and even in the heat of last summer upstairs remained tolerable. I think this is due to very high ceilings and the ability to pull down the upper sliding sash and crack the lower one thus creating a cooling airflow. Apart from snapping sash cords sashes are wonderful windows for great ventilation.
The idea about ceiling height could well be pertinent, the ceilings of the house are lower than average. Which again makes you wonder about government (or pressure groups) advice - is it frankly too generic and does not take account of older buildings?
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Cugel
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by Cugel »

al_yrpal wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 7:30am
Style is a matter of personal preference. I suppose you can always look at your nice view rather than back at your blot on the landscape. Ivy might help.... :D

Al
Yesssss .... whenever I wander about the garden or next door's field, looking back at the hoose, I cry with dismay at the blott it makes. It's amazing that the neighbours haven't sued me for blotting! :-)
Cugel's blott 1
Cugel's blott 1
Cugel's blott 2
Cugel's blott 2
Cugel's blott 3
Cugel's blott 3
Cugel's blott 4
Cugel's blott 4
View from Cugel's blott
View from Cugel's blott
Who is this Ivy and what are her decorator's credentials? Does she wear crinoline or have a bustle and a large feather stolen from an exotic bird in her immense hat? If so I must forego her services.

Cugel, wondering where to fit the Georgian gadrooning and damp plaster folderols.
“Practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence are usually the slaves of some defunct economist”.
John Maynard Keynes
Biospace
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by Biospace »

Are we not becoming rather extreme and heading in a Puritan direction in calling for older properties to be demolished rather than improved because they're not as thermally efficient in cold conditions as new houses?

Increasingly, air conditioning is being talked about for modern houses because so often the ventilation is poor, how much energy will this use? Given last summer's 40C heat is predicted to become the norm (so more Dordogne than Derbyshire) perhaps there should be as much emphasis on houses which remain cool as well keeping the cold out?

Jon in Sweden explains how his heat pumps run so that for every £10 spent on energy, £30 to £44 heat comes out of them. With ever-increasing %s of renewables in Grid supplies and increasing attention on improving the thermal performance of older housing, fossil fuel consumption for space heating will fall hugely.

As https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/ ... g-the-cold suggests, many modern homes are poorly built, leaky and energy inefficient. I detest waste and pollution, but if we're being Puritan about this perhaps we should be looking a little more closely at the use of plastics and other petrochemical products? Polyisocyanurate boarding (Celotex and similar) is many times more polluting and harmful to the planet than natural alternatives, but this is where the profit lies so this is what is made and what most use.

A large percentage of the UK housing stock just needs to be demolished and rebuilt
These old buildings are largely unfixable
However maintaining a comfortable temperature in their bedrooms in the summer is impossible and a/c is being considered. Those Georgians knew a thing or two and we have no such problems with our 11 ft ceilings, and 9ft sliding sashes
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al_yrpal
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by al_yrpal »

Agreed, just think of our lovely country devoid of characterful historic buildings and totally littered with Pete Seeger's little boxes? Thankfully I dont think demolition man's suggestion will be taken seriously. But, in pursuit of energy efficiency, we should incentivise insulation much more than we do.
Recently reading what Chris Packam had to say "despite all the disruption that Extinction Rebellion and Just Stop Oil have caused, the argument is won but there really hasnt been very much progress" (not his exact words).

New approach needed... An excellent start would be insulation.

Al

ps Cugel, dont be so sensitive, a little reciprocal leg pulling and you are overeacting. I am sure its very nice. :lol:
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Biospace wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 2:51pm Are we not becoming rather extreme and heading in a Puritan direction in calling for older properties to be demolished rather than improved because they're not as thermally efficient in cold conditions as new houses?

Increasingly, air conditioning is being talked about for modern houses because so often the ventilation is poor, how much energy will this use? Given last summer's 40C heat is predicted to become the norm (so more Dordogne than Derbyshire) perhaps there should be as much emphasis on houses which remain cool as well keeping the cold out?

Jon in Sweden explains how his heat pumps run so that for every £10 spent on energy, £30 to £44 heat comes out of them. With ever-increasing %s of renewables in Grid supplies and increasing attention on improving the thermal performance of older housing, fossil fuel consumption for space heating will fall hugely.

As https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/ ... g-the-cold suggests, many modern homes are poorly built, leaky and energy inefficient. I detest waste and pollution, but if we're being Puritan about this perhaps we should be looking a little more closely at the use of plastics and other petrochemical products? Polyisocyanurate boarding (Celotex and similar) is many times more polluting and harmful to the planet than natural alternatives, but this is where the profit lies so this is what is made and what most use.

A large percentage of the UK housing stock just needs to be demolished and rebuilt
These old buildings are largely unfixable
However maintaining a comfortable temperature in their bedrooms in the summer is impossible and a/c is being considered. Those Georgians knew a thing or two and we have no such problems with our 11 ft ceilings, and 9ft sliding sashes
I don't think the issue with UK housing stock energy efficiency is picturesque Georgian properties with high ceilings...

And as to the use of plastics in insulation, I've not looked at the sums, but would be astonished if the environmental damage associated with their manufacture was anything other than a tiny fraction of that saved by their use. It's a side issue at worst.

Building standards were downgraded by the coalition govt back in the day, justified on the back of increasing housebuilding and "all regulation is bad". See how well that went.
Jon in Sweden
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by Jon in Sweden »

Biospace wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 2:51pm Are we not becoming rather extreme and heading in a Puritan direction in calling for older properties to be demolished rather than improved because they're not as thermally efficient in cold conditions as new houses?

Increasingly, air conditioning is being talked about for modern houses because so often the ventilation is poor, how much energy will this use? Given last summer's 40C heat is predicted to become the norm (so more Dordogne than Derbyshire) perhaps there should be as much emphasis on houses which remain cool as well keeping the cold out?

Jon in Sweden explains how his heat pumps run so that for every £10 spent on energy, £30 to £44 heat comes out of them. With ever-increasing %s of renewables in Grid supplies and increasing attention on improving the thermal performance of older housing, fossil fuel consumption for space heating will fall hugely.

As https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/ ... g-the-cold suggests, many modern homes are poorly built, leaky and energy inefficient. I detest waste and pollution, but if we're being Puritan about this perhaps we should be looking a little more closely at the use of plastics and other petrochemical products? Polyisocyanurate boarding (Celotex and similar) is many times more polluting and harmful to the planet than natural alternatives, but this is where the profit lies so this is what is made and what most use.

A large percentage of the UK housing stock just needs to be demolished and rebuilt
These old buildings are largely unfixable
However maintaining a comfortable temperature in their bedrooms in the summer is impossible and a/c is being considered. Those Georgians knew a thing or two and we have no such problems with our 11 ft ceilings, and 9ft sliding sashes
I'm not advocating that all older buildings should be demolished, only that we need to really think long and hard about what is actually worth preserving.

Air conditioning is going to become a reality of life in the UK. It's mad that we don't have it in a more widespread fashion. Each year, the majority of people in the UK suffer badly through the various heatwaves as internal temperatures exceed 25c, 30c and more.

About 4 days before we moved in, we had the air/air heat pump installed in our main living space. It doubles up as an AC unit in summer. For the first four weeks after we moved in, the average daily high here was a smidge under 30c. There was no let up and it doesn't matter what your house is made of, if you want sub 25c temperatures, you need artificial cooling.

But you can have AC, guilt free. Simply install solar panels. When the summer heat is at it's fiercest, you can use you AC with reckless abandon safe in the knowledge that you're drawing nothing from the grid.

We just need to install it upstairs now too.

For reference, this is what our house looks like. Very normal for these parts, albeit we have a higher than average number of brick built houses in our village compared to the Swedish average.

Image
peetee
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by peetee »

I attended a very interesting meeting hosted by Cornish Lithium, a company planning to extract the material from deep below the county. I was informed that the element is present in water currently under pressure and at a temperature of 170 degrees. This is much higher than can be handled by any mineral extraction machinery and there is talk of diverting the water via surface supply pipes to provide heating power for a local hospital and a new ‘garden village’ development. The supply would be looped so ‘used’ water would return to the extraction plant at a temperature that would be more conducive to lithium extraction.
We took this proposal on to its logical progression, that being domestic hot water and heating supply via a public utility network. It’s entirely feasible and a president has been set by the widespread installation of fibre-optic cabling to a large percentage of homes. This really is the Golden Goose for this area. The government is focussed on improving the energy efficiency of homes and a near-zero carbon footprint heating system would be highly desirable not just for new developments but also for the large number of older properties here that cannot be insulated in the way newer dwellings can.
The big issue as far as I can see is getting the relevant legislation, investors, companies and local authorities together to make this amazing opportunity a reality.
Last edited by peetee on 30 Jan 2023, 4:58pm, edited 1 time in total.
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simonineaston
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by simonineaston »

Nice snowy roof suggests good insulation :-) I hope you don't leave that light on unnecessarily, mind... :wink:
S
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Cugel
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by Cugel »

al_yrpal wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 3:34pm
ps Cugel, dont be so sensitive, a little reciprocal leg pulling and you are overeacting. I am sure its very nice. :lol:
"Very nice"!? This is faint praise. I demand an immediate gush of utter admiration tinged with envy. :-)

Cugel, leg as yet unstretched.
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853
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by 853 »

roubaixtuesday wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 3:40pm
I don't think the issue with UK housing stock energy efficiency is picturesque Georgian properties with high ceilings...
Every former industrial city, or big town, in the UK has thousands of terraced houses built with solid walls. I don't know what the total figure is, but it's probably in the millions. A lot of these don't have front gardens, so any external cladding would reduce the pavement width or road width (if there is no pavement). And then, after the Grenfell Tower fire, there is a reluctance amongst owners, insurers and mortgage providers to cladding that might be flammable.
roubaixtuesday wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 3:40pm
Building standards were downgraded by the coalition govt back in the day, justified on the back of increasing housebuilding and "all regulation is bad". See how well that went.
I think it was more a case of improvements being put on hold and, as I said six weeks ago, the required amount of floor and wall insulation was increased by 50 percent last year.
853 wrote: 14 Dec 2022, 3:18pm
In terms of insulation they are. In June 2022 Building regs part L increased wall and floor insulation 50 percent to 150mm (6 inches). These are interim regulations, with even more strict ones expected from 2025

From 2025 newly built houses will not be able to be fitted with gas boilers. The expectation is that heat pumps will largely take their place
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mjr
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Re: Heat in the home

Post by mjr »

Jon in Sweden wrote: 30 Jan 2023, 4:50pm Air conditioning is going to become a reality of life in the UK. It's mad that we don't have it in a more widespread fashion. Each year, the majority of people in the UK suffer badly through the various heatwaves as internal temperatures exceed 25c, 30c and more.
Widespread air conditioning is mad. The problem is that the majority of people in the UK either can't (due to bad design, not lack of air con) or don't know how to control their home's temperature.
About 4 days before we moved in, we had the air/air heat pump installed in our main living space. It doubles up as an AC unit in summer. For the first four weeks after we moved in, the average daily high here was a smidge under 30c. There was no let up and it doesn't matter what your house is made of, if you want sub 25c temperatures, you need artificial cooling.
Not necessarily, if you vent an insulated house at night, then keep the shutters on the sun side set to shade during the day (using the shaded windows for light, which is plenty). For example, the high last 7 July here was 36°c, but the indoor temperature never reached 26°c and it only reached 25°c at 8pm. That's in an underinsulated 1990 English brick+tile house. I'm sure later houses or better-insulating materials could do better, if only people knew how (which will differ for different house styles) and ideally had things like automated vents and shutters (or sash windows).

Still put up the solar but use the electricity for more necessary things.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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