Heat in the home

[Jdsk]

...
With reduced levels of Grid redundancy, greater than ever reliance on electricity and ever fewer alternatives we could be sitting ducks if our electricity switches off for more than a day or two in decades to come - many communication channels would be off, if winter then houses would be cold and lit by telephones then candles, there'd be no hot food other than for those with camp stoves and power left in car batteries would be likely saved for any emergency.
...

Cellular 'phone communications are brilliant in emergencies and inherently resilient. The towers and their connections need resilience and redundancy, but you can use any particular 'phone with many different networks. And even without recharging many 'phones will last for several days without recharging.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

...
Presently, it's the cash-rich and those with a more off-grid mindset who invest in house batteries - wouldn't it make sense, especially now landline telephones will all require Grid electricity to work, for the state to make available inexpensive home battery storage which could be used for the benefit of both the nation and the individual - enough energy perhaps for lighting, communications, a few boils of a kettle and electric throws/blankets for 3 days?
...

No, it would be a massive waste of money for the state to do this at the level of the individual home. And much more cost-effective to provide resilience at higher levels of aggregation.

Jonathan

[roubaixtuesday]

...
Presently, it's the cash-rich and those with a more off-grid mindset who invest in house batteries - wouldn't it make sense, especially now landline telephones will all require Grid electricity to work, for the state to make available inexpensive home battery storage which could be used for the benefit of both the nation and the individual - enough energy perhaps for lighting, communications, a few boils of a kettle and electric throws/blankets for 3 days?
...

No, it would be a massive waste of money for the state to do this at the level of the individual home. And much more cost-effective to provide resilience at higher levels of aggregation.

Jonathan

Compelling new cars and home chargers to be V2G compatible would be a huge step forward though. As it is, all those chargers will need replacing...

[Jdsk]

...
Presently, it's the cash-rich and those with a more off-grid mindset who invest in house batteries - wouldn't it make sense, especially now landline telephones will all require Grid electricity to work, for the state to make available inexpensive home battery storage which could be used for the benefit of both the nation and the individual - enough energy perhaps for lighting, communications, a few boils of a kettle and electric throws/blankets for 3 days?
...

No, it would be a massive waste of money for the state to do this at the level of the individual home. And much more cost-effective to provide resilience at higher levels of aggregation.

Compelling new cars and home chargers to be V2G compatible would be a huge step forward though. As it is, all those chargers will need replacing...

Yes, that's an excellent role for the state, or, to be effective, for states acting together.

Jonathan

[Biospace]

...
Presently, it's the cash-rich and those with a more off-grid mindset who invest in house batteries - wouldn't it make sense, especially now landline telephones will all require Grid electricity to work, for the state to make available inexpensive home battery storage which could be used for the benefit of both the nation and the individual - enough energy perhaps for lighting, communications, a few boils of a kettle and electric throws/blankets for 3 days?
...

No, it would be a massive waste of money for the state to do this at the level of the individual home. And much more cost-effective to provide resilience at higher levels of aggregation.

Jonathan

Please summarise your reasoning for this, thanks.

[Jdsk]

...
Presently, it's the cash-rich and those with a more off-grid mindset who invest in house batteries - wouldn't it make sense, especially now landline telephones will all require Grid electricity to work, for the state to make available inexpensive home battery storage which could be used for the benefit of both the nation and the individual - enough energy perhaps for lighting, communications, a few boils of a kettle and electric throws/blankets for 3 days?
...

No, it would be a massive waste of money for the state to do this at the level of the individual home. And much more cost-effective to provide resilience at higher levels of aggregation.

Please summarise your reasoning for this, thanks.

As asked previously:

As in so many of the discussions about heat and energy this needs some numbers if the discussion is to make any progress. What frequency and duration of electricity outages are you considering?

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

No, it would be a massive waste of money for the state to do this at the level of the individual home. And much more cost-effective to provide resilience at higher levels of aggregation.

Compelling new cars and home chargers to be V2G compatible would be a huge step forward though. As it is, all those chargers will need replacing...

Yes, that's an excellent role for the state, or, to be effective, for states acting together.

"ISO 15118-1:2019. Road vehicles. Vehicle to grid communication interface":
https://www.iso.org/standard/69113.html

"This document is also applicable to energy transfer either from EV supply equipment to charge the EV battery or from EV battery to EV supply equipment in order to supply energy to home, to loads or to the grid."

"The new standard for EV charging: ISO15118 Plug&Charge":
https://www.virta.global/blog/iso15118-plug-and-charge

"The Vehicle-to-grid boom is around the corner":
https://www.virta.global/blog/vehicle-t ... the-corner

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

There's a key piece of information missing from some of the recent discussions: the date for turning off gas to homes. It's also missing from national plans, except for 2050 by implication from the targets for "net zero greenhouse-gas emissions".

But here's the report commissioned by the National Infrastructure Commission:
https://nic.org.uk/app/uploads/Arup-Fut ... r-2023.pdf

NB it covers power generation and industrial uses as well as domestic.

Jonathan

[Biospace]

No, it would be a massive waste of money for the state to do this at the level of the individual home. And much more cost-effective to provide resilience at higher levels of aggregation.

Please summarise your reasoning for this, thanks.

As asked previously:

As in so many of the discussions about heat and energy this needs some numbers if the discussion is to make any progress. What frequency and duration of electricity outages are you considering?

Jonathan

You were asking for predictions for events affected by inclement weather, which I pointed are not reliably available.

Do you have any reasoning for why it would make more sense for homes to rely on BEVs for energy than domestically installed batteries? There are many households which will not be able to connect their vehicle to their home for decades, if ever.

[Jdsk]

...
Do you have any reasoning for why it would make more sense for homes to rely on BEVs for energy than domestically installed batteries? There are many households which will not be able to connect their vehicle to their home for decades, if ever.

Where did I say that?

Thanks

Jonathan

[al_yrpal]

Heh Heh.... Gas Aga, no electric involved. Heats the house, heats water, dries washing, two ovens, two hobs.

Last thing they will do is turn gas off.

A little expensive though...

Al

[Biospace]

...
Do you have any reasoning for why it would make more sense for homes to rely on BEVs for energy than domestically installed batteries? There are many households which will not be able to connect their vehicle to their home for decades, if ever.

Where did I say that?

Reading your posts, one after the other, you first suggest that for the state to be involved with domestic batteries "would be a massive waste of money... more cost-effective to provide resilience at higher levels of aggregation" then in your following post suggest that "Compelling new cars and home chargers to be V2G compatible would be a huge step forward though."

Your responses suggest that while the state should encourage V2H and V2G, it would make no sense to do the same with domestic batteries. I clearly read more in to that than was implied.

I still have no idea why you should think it would be a massive waste of money for government to encourage homes to have batteries.

[Biospace]

Heh Heh.... Gas Aga, no electric involved. Heats the house, heats water, dries washing, two ovens, two hobs.

Last thing they will do is turn gas off.

A little expensive though...

Yes, they'll simply increase the price until few can afford it. It is quite possible to synthesise methane from excess RE.

[Jdsk]

...
Do you have any reasoning for why it would make more sense for homes to rely on BEVs for energy than domestically installed batteries? There are many households which will not be able to connect their vehicle to their home for decades, if ever.

Where did I say that?

Reading your posts, one after the other, you first suggest that for the state to be involved with domestic batteries "would be a massive waste of money... more cost-effective to provide resilience at higher levels of aggregation" then in your following post suggest that "Compelling new cars and home chargers to be V2G compatible would be a huge step forward though."

Your responses suggest that while the state should encourage V2H and V2G, it would make no sense to do the same with domestic batteries. I clearly read more in to that than was implied.

Or stated.

It's smart to use BEVs for VtoG and VtoH. It all be helped enormously by implemented standards, which requires state or multistate action on those standards.

It's cheaper and smarter for the state to add resilience against many types of electricity outage at a more aggregated level than the individual home.

Two completely different assertions.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

...
Do you have any reasoning for why it would make more sense for homes to rely on BEVs for energy than domestically installed batteries? There are many households which will not be able to connect their vehicle to their home for decades, if ever.

Where did I say that?

Reading your posts, one after the other, you first suggest that for the state to be involved with domestic batteries "would be a massive waste of money... more cost-effective to provide resilience at higher levels of aggregation" then in your following post suggest that "Compelling new cars and home chargers to be V2G compatible would be a huge step forward though."

No I didn't. But I did agree that it's an excellent idea.

Jonathan