Electric cars

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al_yrpal
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Re: Electric cars

Post by al_yrpal »

francovendee wrote: 13 Dec 2021, 7:17pm Maybe to save the planet we need to keep our older cars on the road longer?
The carbon footprint on our Toyota was created 13 years ago. It would make no sense to buy a new car and be responsible for another large amount of carbon.
We regularly see a fuel consumption of 4.3 litres per 100 km so I don't feel that we're being irresponsible.
When cars finally wear out buying a new one is justified but only if it's essential to run your life.
I think this will be the case for the majority of people.
Not only cars! China, the biggest polluter makes 'stuff'. Less stuff means less polluting emissions. Think about it...

Recycle, reuse.............

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Stradageek
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Stradageek »

Carlton green wrote: 14 Dec 2021, 8:18am Bar in the major metropolitan areas - and even there there are issues - running one’s life is very heavily personal transportation dependant. Local shops, services and employment, etc., are now centralised requiring motorised travel to reach them and due to distance walking becomes an impractical and maybe not possible option. Public transport is often regarded as an answer that we used to have to the issues of personal transportation but the hard truth is that it was always a noticeably imperfect solution and that centralisation has still increased travel distances.
Apologies if this has already been said (it's a long thread) but we can always de-centralise and remove personalised transportation dependency. In a few years the 'Sheds' will need expensive renovation or rebuilding - let's not do that and design local instead.

This will likely make life more expensive (little shops cannot compete with the 'Sheds') but then again you won't have to buy and run a car :D

We now have categorical evidence that when working from home, getting everything delivered (by far fewer vehicles) and with no air travel the world didn't stop, all that happened was that a few cars slowly rusted away and proved difficult to re-start :wink:
Carlton green
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Carlton green »

Stradageek wrote: 14 Dec 2021, 8:49am
Carlton green wrote: 14 Dec 2021, 8:18am Bar in the major metropolitan areas - and even there there are issues - running one’s life is very heavily personal transportation dependant. Local shops, services and employment, etc., are now centralised requiring motorised travel to reach them and due to distance walking becomes an impractical and maybe not possible option. Public transport is often regarded as an answer that we used to have to the issues of personal transportation but the hard truth is that it was always a noticeably imperfect solution and that centralisation has still increased travel distances.
Apologies if this has already been said (it's a long thread) but we can always de-centralise and remove personalised transportation dependency. In a few years the 'Sheds' will need expensive renovation or rebuilding - let's not do that and design local instead.

This will likely make life more expensive (little shops cannot compete with the 'Sheds') but then again you won't have to buy and run a car :D

We now have categorical evidence that when working from home, getting everything delivered (by far fewer vehicles) and with no air travel the world didn't stop, all that happened was that a few cars slowly rusted away and proved difficult to re-start :wink:
As one point leads to another we drift a little off-topic .

Centralisation and economy of scale is here to stay and part of that entails folk travelling many miles for services that they once had on their ‘doorstep’. On the other hand goods bought on-line and delivered to my door is more efficient and arguably greener (think about the overall logistics of the various distribution and storage methods). Sometimes, too often IMHO, centralisation transfers costs from the provider to the user and sometimes costs are not properly allocated. One example of this is the schooling of our children; certainly secondary schools now tend to be very large with pupils each day covering many miles to reach their place of education - far from green and often very expensive for parents.

Working from home is only possible for some professions and for some of those that it is possible for it’s a compromised way of working. During the lockdowns we did get by and the world didn’t stop but overall my recollection is of it being an experience to be missed rather than repeated ... and but for state funded furlough pay rather a lot of people would have been in great financial hardship.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Electric cars

Post by [XAP]Bob »

And for a great many disabled folks it was the first time they had been properly included in many activities... it's a two edged sword, and we shouldn't be looking to go "back to normal", we should be moving forward to a new way of life.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Jdsk
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

On December 15th 2021 the Office for Zero Emission Vehicles reduced the Plug-in Car Grant to £1,500 (from £2,500) and only electric cars under £32,000 are now eligible (reduced from £35,000), with immediate effect.
https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/ozev-p ... t-reduced/

"Government funding targeted at more affordable zero-emission vehicles as market charges ahead in shift towards an electric future":
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... ric-future

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

Any recommendations for EVs that will take

• Two traditional adult uprights with the wheels on
• Ditto wheels off
• In boxes?

Thanks

Jonathan
rotavator
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Re: Electric cars

Post by rotavator »

There is now an electric version of the Citroen Berlingo. I have never driven one but the IC versions are often recommended by STW forumites for carrying MTBs. There is also an extra long version that is big enough to sleep in. Downsides are:
1. some people consider them to be ugly,
2. no status attached to the brand but you may see that as a positive,
3. pricey,
4. Citroen don't have the best reliability record
Edit:5. Range is not great ~170 miles I think, but OK for local travel
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Electric cars

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Jdsk wrote: 9 Jan 2022, 3:33pm Any recommendations for EVs that will take

• Two traditional adult uprights with the wheels on
• Ditto wheels off
• In boxes?

Thanks

Jonathan
MG5? One of the newer Volvos?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
philvantwo
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Re: Electric cars

Post by philvantwo »

The new electric transit.
No link to it I'm afraid.
Jdsk
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

Thanks.

This one isn't for me: it started with the discussion of getting to the start of a tour:
viewtopic.php?p=1664584#p1664584

Any more suggestions?

Jonathan
Carlton green
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Carlton green »

Jdsk wrote: 16 Dec 2021, 5:45pm On December 15th 2021 the Office for Zero Emission Vehicles reduced the Plug-in Car Grant to £1,500 (from £2,500) and only electric cars under £32,000 are now eligible (reduced from £35,000), with immediate effect.
https://www.drive-electric.co.uk/ozev-p ... t-reduced/

"Government funding targeted at more affordable zero-emission vehicles as market charges ahead in shift towards an electric future":
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... ric-future

Jonathan
That does make me laugh, like £32k is affordable! If the Government is serious about getting large numbers moving to Electric then it should be looking towards sorting out access to much cheaper cars than that and it should be looking to make batteries easier and cheaper to replace.

Do I as a tax payer wish to subsidise someone spending £32k on a new car? Don’t be daft, of course I don’t ‘cause if you can afford £32k then you’ve a dam sight more money than me. However if you halve that £32k then one starts to get more sympathetic.

Somewhere and sometime ago I read that the car makers where holding back batteries to be used on the high end models on which they get most profit. If true, and I suspect it likely is, then changes need to be made ...
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
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simonineaston
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Re: Electric cars

Post by simonineaston »

Of all the ordinary decent hard-working folk I know (teachers, nurses, bank staff, IT support staff yadda yadda) would fall down in a dead faint if anyone seriously suggested that they should spend 30k plus on a jam-jar... With one expection, I don't think I know anyone who has ever spent north of 5k on a car.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Electric cars

Post by [XAP]Bob »

So where did those 5k cars come from?

You can’t subsidise second hand cars, you can’t push evs into the second hand market.
All you can do is feed them in to the new market, and let them filter down through the system.

I spent 6k on a car when I started doing 35k a year commuting, but that was easily the most I ever spent. The car I have now is a motability lease, so will feed into that second hand market when it is just three years old - and will be in very good condition.
We manage quite easily with a BEV as our only motor vehicle, even on long trips - in fact in the ~12 or so years since we’ve been a one car family (from just after minibob was born) we’ve hired a car (to have two cars available for a day or a weekend) twice, and borrowed a friends once, maybe twice.
One of the best decisions we made.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 12 Jan 2022, 11:42pm So where did those 5k cars come from?
Exactly.

EVs are more expensive to buy than equivalent ICE vehicles at the moment. If we want people not to buy new ICE vehicles it's sensible to subsidise the alternative. And then the new EVs will trickle down and become preloved EVs.

Promoting uptake of purchase will also accelerate the building of the infrastructure. And greater availability of chargers will make EVs more attractive. It's a virtuous cycle for once.

Jonathan
Mike Sales
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Mike Sales »

EVs have fewer external costs than ICEs but it still seems to me perverse to subsidise them. I suppose that charging full external costs to ICE users would be politically unacceptable.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
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