Electric cars

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Jdsk
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

Thankyou

Jonathan
francovendee
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Re: Electric cars

Post by francovendee »

Will the roads in 30 years be as crowded, will 99% of cars and vans be EV?
Or will we have turned our backs on car ownership and travel by a personal vehicle?
In a perfect world I'd like think we would but there is zero will by any government to put in measures to encourage people to use something other than the family car.
Fuel prices here have increased considerably, partly as a result of measures by the government.
It's done little to change people's habits as there aren't any alternatives. No bus services and the nearest station 10 miles away.
In countries that have a population more spread out than the UK it would mean that bus services would always need a subsidy, or would they?
Carlton green
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Carlton green »

It's done little to change people's habits as there aren't any alternatives. No bus services and the nearest station 10 miles away.”

That’s about the sum of it. The alternatives are typically impractical, if available at all, and hence folk are typically trapped into continuing to act as they currently do. Successive Governments have failed to recognise and then tackle the issues involved.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
Jdsk
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

francovendee wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 8:44am Will the roads in 30 years be as crowded, will 99% of cars and vans be EV?
Or will we have turned our backs on car ownership and travel by a personal vehicle?
In a perfect world I'd like think we would but there is zero will by any government to put in measures to encourage people to use something other than the family car.
Fuel prices here have increased considerably, partly as a result of measures by the government.
It's done little to change people's habits as there aren't any alternatives. No bus services and the nearest station 10 miles away.
In countries that have a population more spread out than the UK it would mean that bus services would always need a subsidy, or would they?
Great questions.

Many of the necessary changes won't happen, or won't happen quickly enough, without an integrated transport policy.

But most of those changes can be seen somewhere already, but not in enough volume. Differential taxation (and subsidies), decrease in personal ownership, decrease in learning to drive, emission zones, LTNs, autonomous vehicles, public transport in London and some other cities, EVs rather than ICE vehicles, eBikes...

The point about governments is very interesting. The changes are hard for the bodies that are responsible for big public taxation and expenditure. But some UK cities, Wales, Scotland, and the EU are all pretty active on them... is this because they aren't responsible for balancing the books in the same way as HMG?

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

francovendee wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 8:44amIn countries that have a population more spread out than the UK it would mean that bus services would always need a subsidy, or would they?
All of the relevant transport systems involve taxation and subsidies. Some are hidden and some aren't. It's going to be much easier to make progress when they are all transparent and popular understanding is much greater.

Fortunately we're now educating people better than ever before and it's much easier to find the relevant information than ever before.

Jonathan
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Hellhound
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Hellhound »

Carlton green wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 8:25am
Hellhound wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 12:51am
Carlton green wrote: 13 Jan 2022, 10:44pm The power which car drivers are allowed to use on the roads is absolutely ridiculous as is the (excessive) size of vehicles which are defined as a car. What is more is that anyone who passes a car driving test can then go out and drive something with a hundred plus HP.
A hundred plus HP :lol: :lol: When did you pass your test? Most Driving instructors cars are probably over 100BHP nowadays :lol:
Don’t that just go to show the lunacy of it all. Since when did anyone actually need all of that power? I’ll tell you, it’s since never. If you can travel all over the world in something like an old Morris Minor Traveller and an old Mini Countryman (both small engine and low power estate type cars) then anything much bigger or more powerful is excessive. It’s long been time to cap the size and power of motor cars and the shift to electric is an opportunity to do so.
Have you ever driven an EV?
The power is instant and the acceleration is quite impressive.Add to that the lack of engine noise and you have a very quick,silent missile!With an ICE vehicle the engine tells you how hard you are accelerating an EV does not.
No point capping EVs at 70mph if they can hit that in 5 seconds.
You could travel all over the World in a Morris Traveller but things have moved on and I'd rather do it in my modern 225bhp Estate and be comfortable and be able to hear myself think at 70mph.
There is nothing excessive about modern cars.They are just modern.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Electric cars

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Jdsk wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 8:32am
Carlton green wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 8:25amIt’s long been time to cap the size and power of motor cars and the shift to electric is an opportunity to do so.
What's the ethical principle on which you'd base controlling how big or how much power someone else's vehicle has? Space taken on the road, environmental damage, safety of others... ?

Thanks

Jonathan
Safety and licensing... one thing that it would really allow is license downgrade based on motoring offences... gives you an option short of the complete ban.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Electric cars

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Slowtwitch wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 7:28am I'm all for EVs (the sooner I can breathe easily on city centre rides the better!) but they really do need to have a better soundtrack - the barely audible hum that comes from them isn't enough to make you aware of their presence. Though if these driverless loons get their way, I can't see bicycles and cars in the same transit lanes at all... :roll:
Driverless is what will make it safer...
Soundtracks are configurable, but there isn't a good reason to say that cars must be loud - what is it that you think is too quiet? at even moderate speeds the tyre noise is dominant.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Carlton green
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Carlton green »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 1:45pm
Jdsk wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 8:32am
Carlton green wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 8:25amIt’s long been time to cap the size and power of motor cars and the shift to electric is an opportunity to do so.
What's the ethical principle on which you'd base controlling how big or how much power someone else's vehicle has? Space taken on the road, environmental damage, safety of others... ?

Thanks

Jonathan
Safety and licensing... one thing that it would really allow is license downgrade based on motoring offences... gives you an option short of the complete ban.
I think the idea of licensing by power is logical enough and (overall) it is already used to good effect on motorcycles. Extending the motorcycle philosophy to also couple the car driving licence to engine power categories seems logical to me, I think it an excellent suggestion. Of course if you have points on your licence your insurance goes up, and whilst that does make some people think some others, with either wealth or no sense, tend to pay up and don’t change their ways.
Don’t fret, it’s OK to: ride a simple old bike; ride slowly, walk, rest and admire the view; ride off-road; ride in your raincoat; ride by yourself; ride in the dark; and ride one hundred yards or one hundred miles. Your bike and your choices to suit you.
francovendee
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Re: Electric cars

Post by francovendee »

Is there a chance of all manufacturers agreeing on one type of charging connection?
I see the different systems as being another obstacle to easing people away from the simplicity of refueling they're used to.
Jdsk
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

francovendee wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:33am Is there a chance of all manufacturers agreeing on one type of charging connection?
I see the different systems as being another obstacle to easing people away from the simplicity of refueling they're used to.
I think that the problem is decreasing rapidly:
viewtopic.php?p=1518976&hilit=ev+charge ... s#p1518976

Jonathan
francovendee
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Re: Electric cars

Post by francovendee »

Jdsk wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 12:40pm
francovendee wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:33am Is there a chance of all manufacturers agreeing on one type of charging connection?
I see the different systems as being another obstacle to easing people away from the simplicity of refueling they're used to.
I think that the problem is decreasing rapidly:
viewtopic.php?p=1518976&hilit=ev+charge ... s#p1518976

Jonathan
That seems to show it will be easier to find the right charging point.
If you buy a used car with a system now being superceded it may become increasingly difficult to find the right charging point. Maybe a reason not to buy a used EV?
EV
Jdsk
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Re: Electric cars

Post by Jdsk »

francovendee wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 7:17pmIf you buy a used car with a system now being superceded it may become increasingly difficult to find the right charging point. Maybe a reason not to buy a used EV?
In the EU compatibility has been managed for quite a long time, currently (!) by the 2014 Alternative Fuels Directive.

Backwards compatibility may not give the highest possible charging rates, and there's no cheap way around that. But charging will be possible.

And the problem will decrease over time, as above.

Jonathan

"Directive 2014/94/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22 October 2014 on the deployment of alternative fuels infrastructure Text with EEA relevance":
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 32014L0094

"Infrastructure for charging electric vehicles: more charging stations but uneven deployment makes travel across the EU complicated":
https://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocu ... ure_EN.pdf
and see the section titled: "Common EU plug standards are being widely adopted".
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Electric cars

Post by [XAP]Bob »

francovendee wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 7:17pm
Jdsk wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 12:40pm
francovendee wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:33am Is there a chance of all manufacturers agreeing on one type of charging connection?
I see the different systems as being another obstacle to easing people away from the simplicity of refueling they're used to.
I think that the problem is decreasing rapidly:
viewtopic.php?p=1518976&hilit=ev+charge ... s#p1518976

Jonathan
That seems to show it will be easier to find the right charging point.
If you buy a used car with a system now being superceded it may become increasingly difficult to find the right charging point. Maybe a reason not to buy a used EV?
EV

There are vanishingly few type 1 based vehicles in the UK, and those come with adaptors.
Chademo and CCS are likely to coexist for a good while yet, Nissan seem to have no interest in converting to CCS for the European market.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
francovendee
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Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Electric cars

Post by francovendee »

Nissan seems to be limiting their market. This is strange as they plan to build a new sports utility car in the UK.
I'm assuming they'll want to export them to Europe so the new car will have a CCS system.
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