How/where do I measure modern frames?

[Paul Smith SRCC]

Interesting replies. Thank you guys.

Still not convinced other than cheapness of manufacture.
Gone, are the artisans and the skills, to be replaced with the conveyor-belt.

You can still get frames made in the traditional way Mick

Argos, Dave Yates, Ellis Briggs, Geoff Roberts, Hallett, Hetchins, Mercian and Saffron to name just a few

[Mick F]

Of course you can. You can get anything made in any design you want.
That's not the point though.

Off the peg bikes were always horizontal in the past. No matter how cheap the bike.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

Of course you can. You can get anything made in any design you want.
That's not the point though.

Off the peg bikes were always horizontal in the past. No matter how cheap the bike.

Sorry I misinterpreted "the point" I thought you were making when you referenced "Gone, are the artisans and the skills"

[Jdsk]

Off the peg bikes were always horizontal in the past. No matter how cheap the bike.

Some were. Others weren't.

Jonathan

[Pneumant]

I believe Mike Burrows originated the compact road design (certainly influenced by mountain bike frame design) with Giant then introducing to the mass market. Way back in '97/98. At that time TIG welded aluminium bike frames were regarded as exotic and superior to steel. Cannondale were already manufacturing using TIG welded aluminium but only in a horizontal TT design. Giant had the new design and coupled with TIG welded alloy they had a sales winner. I note that from time to time current 'premium' brands try and sneak a horiziontal or near horizontal TT design back into their ranges including Giant!

Thanks.

Is there a technical connection between welded aluminium frames and compact geometry?

Jonathan

The technical connection is there in terms of the far eastern factories being set-up to manufacture quality aluminium frames on a factory production line. Compact frame bikes with limited size availability can be made to fit a range of users by judicious use of seatposts / stems and headset spacers, an attractive stock option to both manufacturer and retailer.

[Mick F]

Of course you can. You can get anything made in any design you want.
That's not the point though.

Off the peg bikes were always horizontal in the past. No matter how cheap the bike.

Sorry I misinterpreted "the point" I thought you were making when you referenced "Gone, are the artisans and the skills"

I meant that the artisans and skills are gone from the mass-produced bikes.
Sorry for my sweeping statement.

[Sweep]

.... the somewhat greater amount of exposed seatpost makes it easier to stack stuff on the rack without it interfering with the rider.....

Hmmm. Don't see this myself. The distance between the rack platform and the saddle isn't influenced by the amount of seatpost showing but by the height of the saddle and rack.

I may be having a brainstorm but it seems to me that with a frame sloping towards the back, more seatpost will tend to be exposed than with a horizontal toptube when the saddle is at the appropriate height. Rider on top of that on saddle. This gives somewhere for the strapped on junk to rest - I find it disturbing if it comes up to where I'm sitting. I do now and again look at horizontal tubes when out and about - seems to be less seatpost showing.
Must admit I do prefer the visual effect of a horizontal tube - looks kinda classic. But I prefer sloping for various practical reasons,.

[MartinC]

Yes, but the distance between saddle and rear wheel/mg/rack isn't altered by the slope of the top tube so what you can put on the rack won't change. If you wanted to strap a spare tub to the seatpost it might.

[Chris Jeggo]

Agreed. Position of saddle relative to bottom bracket is determined by ergonomics - rider's legs etc. So the seat tube angle and the sum (seat tube length + length of exposed seat post) will be the same. What may well be different is the position of the seat stays, which may affect what luggage may be carried and precisely where; not a big effect.