Stradageek wrote: ↑13 Dec 2021, 8:58am
I'm generally in favour of bells because for most people they:
b) at 4000-5000kHz (most 'ping' bells) hit the most sensitive hearing frequency.
Just make sure you don't assume that people can hear that high.
That's perilously close to the point where my hearing drops off a cliff (and I mean my threshold of hearing is very close to most people's threshold of pain).
I have a bell in the velo, as well as a motorbike horn, but not on the wind cheetah - I'll use my voice as needed there.
In all cases I try to remain aware that people may not hear anything, waiting for what the emergency services call "positive deflection" to indicate that I can continue on my way with a reasonable degree of confidence - a thank you as I pass is also usually well received.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse. There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Tim Holman wrote: ↑12 Dec 2021, 7:53pm
I have this strange feeling that I've been here before...
We have. I've also remarked before that, at least on quiet country roads, I like to whistle a merry tune. Carries for hundreds of yards at least, and usually gets a grin and a cheery wave from horse rider and pedestrian alike.
Round town, I'm often on my Brompton. Its bell is rather near the controls, and I'm forever pinging it by mistake when changing gear. Not annoyed anyone yet, except myself, but you never know.
mjr wrote: ↑12 Dec 2021, 6:18pm
If it's got to the point where you need to operate both brakes, it's too late for a bell anyway, so let's knock the "dangerous" claim on the head.
Quite right, when a pedestrian steps in front of you without looking it's too dangerous to take a hand from a brake lever but it's never too late to shout.
mjr wrote: ↑12 Dec 2021, 6:18pm
If it's got to the point where you need to operate both brakes, it's too late for a bell anyway, so let's knock the "dangerous" claim on the head.
Quite right, when a pedestrian steps in front of you without looking it's too dangerous to take a hand from a brake lever but it's never too late to shout.
There are situations where you need both hands on the bars, fingers operating the brakes, and of course that means your voice is the only means of alerting someone else. If squealing brakes haven't done the job for you. But that doesn't make your bell dangerous. You simply don't use it at moments like that. I have had a bell on my bike for the last decade or so, and I use it, but I have never been tempted to use it when I need both hands on the brakes. I don't leave my voice at home simply because I have a bell. I go out with both. And I use both.
Bells are good but if you could ring them in time to get a reaction from people. Ringing them when you're very close to them might not get the reaction from them you wanted because they're too busy looking round to see where you are when you're trying to pass. Usually by stepping back into your path on the left or right.
Other issues are bells that cannot few heard from a distance that gives the pedestrian time to react, see you and make the right decision on the best direction to move out of your way.
Peds and pedallers all need to do their bit and it seems to me a bell is a tool to facilitate that but it needs correct use. Which means timing it right among other things.
A similar late call from a jogger nearly knocked my then 5 year old son into the canal once. Perhaps a good wrist mounted bell for joggers top? I wonder if we can ask garmin to add a speaker and bell function to their running / fitness watches? It's a winner for me considering in lockdown it was the serious runners and fitness types whose gyms were shut that were the biggest menace on the canal towpaths near where I lived during first lockdown.
Reading this thread, I’m reminded of walking in New York 10 years ago. Crossing the road ahead of me were a group of pedestrians who’d taken a chance as the crossing light changed to red. Like hornets, a group of cycle messengers shot across the junction and most were blowing whistles very stridently. Cue pedestrian panic but vey effectively cleared the crosswalk.
Several years later in Munich, where cycle lanes were on or across footpaths, I observed that pedestrians took great care NOT to enter cycle lanes. Good wife crossed into on and immediately got loud abuse from several well dressed city types obviously en route to / from work and the other pedestrians seemed to approve the cyclists’ attitude.
If only Brits would be more aware when walking, stick to designated footpaths and not stray. Even if they bothered to look over their shoulders it would help.
Reading this thread, I’m reminded of walking in New York 10 years ago. Crossing the road ahead of me were a group of pedestrians who’d taken a chance as the crossing light changed to red. Like hornets, a group of cycle messengers shot across the junction and most were blowing whistles very stridently. Cue pedestrian panic but vey effectively cleared the crosswalk.
Several years later in Munich, where cycle lanes were on or across footpaths, I observed that pedestrians took great care NOT to enter cycle lanes. Good wife crossed into one and immediately got loud abuse from several well dressed city types obviously en route to / from work and the other pedestrians seemed to approve the cyclists’ attitude.
If only Brits would be more aware when walking, stick to designated footpaths and not stray. Even if they bothered to look over their shoulders it would help.
If it weren't for the language I'd seriously consider moving to Germany...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse. There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
CinnabarMoth wrote: ↑12 Dec 2021, 5:19pm
Something that really iritates me are daft pedestrians who require me to mount a bell on my bike for no rational reason whatever except that they expect cyclists to use bells. The vast majority of people I encounter on cycle lanes and towpaths are quite happy for me to announce my approach by talking to them and horse riders seem very apreciative of a polite and cheery comment intended to reasure the the horse. But every now and then I encounter a grumpy pedestrian for whom 'hiya' or 'passing on your left' or whatever is just not good enough and they are compelled to shout 'where's your bell!'.
I think bells on bikes are far less functionally usefull than actually speaking to people but worse than that they are dangerous fittings on bikes with drop bars as one cannot ring a bell and operate both brakes at the same time.
Just get a bell and use it in good time. Grumpy dog walkers like me will appreciate it as will the dogs who have better hearing than humans and will be alerted to your approach sooner than you using your voice which they will probably ignore.
Tiggertoo wrote: ↑13 Dec 2021, 4:43pm
Either way, whatever device - or voice - we are using, I do think it is endemic in all of us to promote happy relations with the rest of mankind, by saying: 'Thank you' once we have passed by.
[/quote][Just get a bell and use it in good time. Grumpy dog walkers like me will appreciate it as will the dogs who have better hearing than humans and will be alerted to your approach sooner than you using your voice which they will probably ignore.
[/quote]
I believe dogs should be under the control of their owners, not listening for bells.
CinnabarMoth wrote: ↑12 Dec 2021, 5:19pm
[Something that really iritates me are daft pedestrians who require me to mount a bell on my bike for no rational reason whatever except that they expect cyclists to use bells. The vast majority of people I encounter on cycle lanes and towpaths are quite happy for me to announce my approach by talking to them and horse riders seem very apreciative of a polite and cheery comment intended to reasure the the horse. But every now and then I encounter a grumpy pedestrian for whom 'hiya' or 'passing on your left' or whatever is just not good enough and they are compelled to shout 'where's your bell!'.
I think bells on bikes are far less functionally usefull than actually speaking to people but worse than that they are dangerous fittings on bikes with drop bars as one cannot ring a bell and operate both brakes at the same time.
Just get a bell and use it in good time. Grumpy dog walkers like me will appreciate it as will the dogs who have better hearing than humans and will be alerted to your approach sooner than you using your voice which they will probably ignore.
Indeed. 8-10 seconds is usually sufficient time, and gives time for both to respond.
Something that really irritates me is cyclists who have no idea how to use a bell and then rant about pedestrians complaining as though it's their fault.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
CinnabarMoth wrote: ↑12 Dec 2021, 5:19pm
....
I think bells on bikes are far less functionally usefull than actually speaking to people but worse than that they are dangerous fittings on bikes with drop bars as one cannot ring a bell and operate both brakes at the same time.
Just get a bell and use it in good time. Grumpy dog walkers like me will appreciate it as will the dogs who have better hearing than humans and will be alerted to your approach sooner than you using your voice which they will probably ignore.
Indeed. 8-10 seconds is usually sufficient time, and gives time for both to respond.
Something that really irritates me is cyclists who have no idea how to use a bell and then rant about pedestrians complaining as though it's their fault.
I have a drop-bar bike (traditional old tourer). There is an old "ding-a-ling" bell mounted on the stem. I use it. And I find that on car-free paths some people don't hear it. So, I find I have to slow down, ring more (fine, I'm on a shared use car-free path, not a cycle-only-speed-route).
Or, people hear it when I'm closer and leap into the verge - a far from necessary action on a wide shared use path: I just wish to warn them of approach from behind, not instruct them to leave the path.
I've yet to find a really good bike bell. Tried a few, and the best I have is 40-plus year old ding-a-ling. The modern cheap "ping" types fitted to many bikes at shops to conform to point-of-sale regulations are near quiet and useless. The expensive "Knog" has a really nice tone, looks very nice, but doesn't project the sound well enough to be really useful.
