Cycling UK Forum

Going back to your original 3 questions:

The only current IGH that will replicate the OLD of your S7 (130mm) is the 7 speed Nexus rim brake version. 8 speed versions will be 135mm (as will most other IGH's above 3 speed).

Your shifter arrangement should fit no differently whichever hub you choose - but some my offer an aftermarket drop bar shifter.

Most wheel removal options are pretty much as easy as your S7. With Nexus hubs the trick is to practice it and then remember the correct way for when you need to. Nothing is as easy as a Rohloff but the S7 was good 'cos you could see what you were doing.

Carlton's thoughts about 3 speeds are well worth considering in my experience. Every 3 speed is really a 5 speed - you have a 2 foot gear at the bottom and a spin out and enjoy it at the top. It's a different way of riding and if you're not in a hurry or lugging a big load it's quite relaxing.

The "mushiness" aspect is interesting. You may not even notice it, I mentioned it because if your experience is of a single stage hub (S7) you may. For me the impact was when spinning along and coming to a slight rise like a motorway bridge you'd want to just click down a gear and power over it. Clicking down would take me into a treacly 3 stage drive across a bigger gap and the soft take up when reapplying pedal pressure after the change was the final irritation. Ideally I'd have changed the sprocket/chainring combination to put this somewhere better in the Alfine's irregular sequence of gear gaps and multiplicity of drive trains but that would've compromised the top or bottom ratios. Having ridden Nexus 7's quite a bit too this was quite noticeable and for me it's a better hub. The ratios are similar to an S7 and it's cheaper than an Alfine.

Carlton green wrote: ↑16 Dec 2021, 8:56am
I’m not sure that my experience will help but here’s an alternative route that might suit some.

I used to use a Sram five speed hub but when spare parts become unavailable I decided that a change was needed - pity really ‘cause they’re a great hub gear.

IIRC the alternative hub gears with many ratios required 135mm rear drop-outs and I was running the Sram in a frame with 120mm rear drop-outs. As I really didn’t want to risk spreading the drop-outs my options appeared to be very limited so I had to have a rethink. In the past I’ve rather looked down my nose at three speed Sturmey Archer Hubs but I decided to go that route and found one with a suitably long axle, etc. - as a bonus it wasn’t very expensive either. In theory - and practice for some - a three speed SA might not be as capable as hub gears with more ratios. However, as far as my own real life use goes I can honestly say that I’m delighted with my hub and my set-up. Additionally spare parts seem to be in ready supply and these hubs are easy enough to service (just occasionally add oil) and easy enough to strip and rebuild. That’s a positive contrast to the alternative hub gears which IIRC aren’t so easy to care for.

YMMV but - to my surprise - I found that the three speed AW is a versatile arrangement that gets me about very nicely. Hint: pick your overall gearing with care. My top speed is a slightly limited but as I’m not racing anywhere a little - if any - extra time taken for my journeys doesn’t matter, and whilst I find that my lowest ratio is slightly too high for the steepest of hills I also find that getting off and walking up extreme slopes is quite liberating - and not particularly slower overall. Honestly, with a bit of compromise and mental adjustment, just three speeds isn’t too much of an issue; folk even used to do LeJOG on three speed hub gears and at one time they were the gears that Cycle Tourists used.

My experience and route won’t suit all but it is an alternative and the older style AW’s were renown for their excellent reliability.

The bikes I owned until I was 26 all had Sturmey 3-speed hubs. So impressed was I with the robust reliability of this component, that when I then got myself a "proper" touring bike (the same one that is the subject of my original post), I had it fitted with a SA 5-speed hub. As is now well-known, this did not have the same dependability as the 3-speed, and within three years I had exchanged for a Sachs 5-speed hub. By the time that needed replacing, Sachs/SRAM had introduced their 7-speed hub, which is what I have been riding ever since. It's a very good component, except for the fiddling with the click box assembly whenever you need to remove and remount the wheel, and in particular the fragility of that red plastic locator sleeve (I seem to remember that I have posted about that on this forum before, and that Brucey has also mentioned this issue).

Although it doesn't suffer from mushiness, there is actually one other minor irritation with the SRAM S7. It can be slow to engage when gears are changed: this happens when changing from 4 to 5, but more seriously when changing down from 3 to 2 (or all the way to 1). So I'm going up a moderately steep hill in gear 3, I see the hill steepening ahead, and then I lose precious momentum as I change down and wait for gear 2 or 1 to engage.

As the OP has had a SA five speed and a Sach five speed hub in the frame in question I suspect that the drop-out width is relatively narrow and that therefore he’ll face the limited options that I had. If that is the case then the good news is that he’s happily used an SA AW in the past and that with careful selection of the chainwheel and drive sprocket the gearing range available is, at least, reasonably useful.

Perhaps, when he has a moment, the OP might put a rule or tape near or over the rear drop-outs and give us an approximate distance for their width apart, please. Knowing that gap would really help others to suggest what’s likely to fit in his frame.

MartinC wrote: ↑16 Dec 2021, 7:52pm Carlton's thoughts about 3 speeds are well worth considering in my experience. Every 3 speed is really a 5 speed - you have a 2 foot gear at the bottom and a spin out and enjoy it at the top. It's a different way of riding and if you're not in a hurry or lugging a big load it's quite relaxing.

Thanks, and thanks for your evaluation which nicely puts into words observations from my own use.

To my mind the SA AW three speed is a solution that met the practical needs of cycle tourists in the past - if admittedly many decades back - and whilst today’s cyclists now have even ‘better’ solutions available to them the AW is still just as good and capable as it ever was. You can cover a lot of miles on an SA AW.

Carlton green wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 2:41pm As the OP has had a SA five speed and a Sach five speed hub in the frame in question I suspect that the drop-out width is relatively narrow and that therefore he’ll face the limited options that I had. If that is the case then the good news is that he’s happily used an SA AW in the past and that with careful selection of the chainwheel and drive sprocket the gearing range available is, at least, reasonably useful.

Perhaps, when he has a moment, the OP might put a rule or tape near or over the rear drop-outs and give us an approximate distance for their width apart, please. Knowing that gap would really help others to suggest what’s likely to fit in his frame.

The bike is about to be taken to Mercian Cycles for a complete renovation. I'm fairly sure that the drop-out width is at least 130mm, and the plan is to ask them to cold-set it to the required 135mm (I have already mentioned this to them in our email correspondence).

lbomaak2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 9:20pm

Carlton green wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 2:41pm
Perhaps, when he has a moment, the OP might put a rule or tape near or over the rear drop-outs and give us an approximate distance for their width apart, please. Knowing that gap would really help others to suggest what’s likely to fit in his frame.

The bike is about to be taken to Mercian Cycles for a complete renovation. I'm fairly sure that the drop-out width is at least 130mm, and the plan is to ask them to cold-set it to the required 135mm (I have already mentioned this to them in our email correspondence).

Thanks for the info. With 135 mm OLN you will have many options some of which have already been talked about. Sadly Brucey no longer posts here any more but I think that searching through his expert past posts might well help with IGH selection. IIRC, of the two, Brucey preferred the 8-speed Shimano Alfine over the 11-speed version, the 8-speed is considerably cheaper too. I’m not sure what the situation is WRT Shimano spare parts and the ease of maintaining and repairing their hubs, but perhaps that’s a separate discussion ...

Once you’ve got your new hub in and running pleases don’t forget to post with details of your selection and your initial experiences.

MartinC wrote: ↑16 Dec 2021, 7:52pmThe only current IGH that will replicate the OLD of your S7 (130mm) is the 7-speed Nexus rim brake version.

I'm confused by this statement. Sturmey-Archer offers 2, 3, 4, 5 and 8-speed IGHs with OLDs between 120mm and 135mm.

Carlton green wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 9:35pmWith 135 mm OLN you will have many options..

Rohloff Speedhub, Kindernay XIV, Enviolo Sportive

lbomaak2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 9:20pm The bike is about to be taken to Mercian Cycles for a complete renovation. I'm fairly sure that the drop-out width is at least 130mm, and the plan is to ask them to cold-set it to the required 135mm (I have already mentioned this to them in our email correspondence).

..if the frame is going in for a complete renovation, I guess that leaves open the question of having a rear derailleur hanger added...

Sid Aluminium wrote: ↑19 Dec 2021, 3:17pm

MartinC wrote: ↑16 Dec 2021, 7:52pmThe only current IGH that will replicate the OLD of your S7 (130mm) is the 7-speed Nexus rim brake version.

I'm confused by this statement. Sturmey-Archer offers 2, 3, 4, 5 and 8-speed IGHs with OLDs between 120mm and 135mm.

Yes! I'm out of date, just checked, the new(ish) rotary shifter ones come in a bewildering variety of OLN's depending on the braking arrangement and some of them are 130mm or pretty close.

My most recent bike was fitted from new with an Alfine 11 "speed" and the rear fork width is 135mm.
It is in some ways the answer to my prayers in that it has 11 gear options across a (c.) 410% range and offers me straightforward and predictable changes between gears in the way that internal gear hub (igh) users are used to - that is, at speed and when stationary. Fabulous.
I've been a serial igh user on my touring bikes (with a brief sojurn into the wacky-and-rather-missed world of hybrid gearing in the form of a Sachs 3x7), enjoying S&A products in the form of their 3, 4, 5 & 8 speed offerings.
The Alfine 11 speed has everything I want these days and I'm totally happy with it. The only caveat is that I'm a gentle cyclist - less than 10 stone and 'getting on', I've always been a twiddler. I mention this not so much to give the reader a pen-portrait (at which many will baulk, I imagine) but more to point out that I've always been light on mechanicals - brakes, cables, chains etc.etc.. Other beefier individuals may find that the mechanicals under their care wear out or "bust" quicker than mine do. That may include the Alfine hub.
There are enough sprocket options for users to tweak the overall gear range to allow for individual preferences - I opted to focus on a lowest gear of 20 inches, which gives my a top gear of just under 90".
So far mine has been faultless. Instructions that are readily available, on the subject of their routine maintenance suggest the procedures are straightforward, if rather expensive, if adhered to to the letter. Maintenance should be well within the scope both of a decent dealer and the home owner. The op may care to take into consideration that there's a large amount of material concerning the product available via a search engine that will allow them to undergo the necessary work themselves, should they wish to retain control of the operation. It basically boils down to a) keeping the cable clean and b) changing the oil.
The op may be interested in my step-by-step guide to removing the internals - see here.
Lastly, shifters for the 11 speed are available for straight bars (Shimano's own dual trigger), as well as for drop bars (the rather expensive Microshift offering) and JTek's excellent-if-dear bar-end jobbie, which is what I use.
To date, I'm super-pleased with this set-up and rather regret not moving to it sooner...

cycle tramp wrote: ↑19 Dec 2021, 4:21pm

lbomaak2 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2021, 9:20pm The bike is about to be taken to Mercian Cycles for a complete renovation. I'm fairly sure that the drop-out width is at least 130mm, and the plan is to ask them to cold-set it to the required 135mm (I have already mentioned this to them in our email correspondence).

..if the frame is going in for a complete renovation, I guess that leaves open the question of having a rear derailleur hanger added...

It’s perhaps for a separate thread but there’s a lot to be said in favour of a basic derailleur set up with a wide ratio block at the back and a single chainwheel at the front - I like to keep things as simple as is practical. Such a derailleur arrangement once served me well and if wide ratio five speed blocks were still widely available then I’d have considered reverting to that arrangement when the P5 became obsolete. I love Hub Gears - in some ways the Sram P5 was the perfect hub gear - but whilst today’s modern offerings are wonderful they’re also (more) complex mechanisms and complex has a habit of being hard to maintain and expensive to fix.

My own focus isn’t on absolute performance but rather on a balanced mix of: reliably, ease of repair, ease of care, functionality and affordability. The SA AW ticks those boxes well enough for me - if not for others - and the arguably better Sram P5 is much missed. Having a (fallback) route available to revert to a simple derailleur set up seems like a useful plan ‘b’ to me.