Bike choice for multi week patagonia trip

[djb]

Couple of questions?
How much do you intend to carry? If loads then a MTB styled heavy tourer might be more appropriate.
How tall are you? If tall then 700c fine, if shorter then 26" wheel wil surfice.
Cheers James

My traveling partner through central America continued on down to end of S America, so I know what he carried. There are tons of trip journals from Patagonia et al, and to be self sufficient and deal with cool/cold, it's pretty expected to be loaded with 40, 50lbs easy.
And there's serious wind down there.
I went through a number of pretty darn windy areas in Mexico, Nicaragua and on the flat you'd be struggling to hold ,8,9,10kph in the small ring at times.

Oh, my trip buddy is about 6'4" and used a 26inch wheeled mountain bike.

[s130]

Hi all,

Thanks so much for all the really helpful replies - they are much appreciated despite the delayed response (apologies)!

Thanks for the thoughts on stanforth, thorn (had a good long chat with helpful assistant!) and spa cycles all, hadn't come across these before so really useful to add to the options!

Initially I was hoping to get a bike which might bridge both gravel / bikepacking and also for this longer tour but from your responses and further deliberation I don't think this would be appropriate as I don't think a bike appropriate to gravel / bikepacking will fit my requirements for this trip and so will probably go all in for a full-on tourer (thanks @pwa)

those on thin tyres really struggled on the rough surfaces. I would also go for low gears as the hills were tough. I would also look at the luggage carrying capability of the bike, towards the bottom of Chile the supply points were up to 4 days cycling apart.

I was wondering how wide your tyres would need to be at a minimum do you think (friend is thinking about taking his current bike so looking at tyre clearance). Also any thoughts on gear inches in particular that you would recommend? Really useful to know re supplies, any thoughts on water carrying capacity (will take a purifier)? Thanks!

I've traveled in Latin America (not south yet) and highly recommend very low gearing and at least 2in tires. My bike is a 26er but given that it's pretty much a no brainer to have a spare folding tire with you, whether you have this or that probably isn't really an issue. Use top quality tires in great shape and you'll be fine.
That said, I'm still fond of 26 because its what I have, I like the slightly lower gearing, no toe strike even with fenders, and yes the unlikely chance I need to source a tire easier in smalltown somewhere.
But a lot of good new tires not available in 26...

I use derailleurs, and still find a mtb triple to be best for loaded touring, 40,50 + pounds of carrying extra water food stuff in mountainous terrain. For me a 44/32/22 still is great, and the 22 gets used a hell of a lot. Long climbs, short very steep stuff or battling killer headwinds , the 22t is great.
No matter your gearing, it's a bonus to have well under 20 gear inches. My bike is 16.7g.i. with 2 inch tires. Top gear 103, so about 55kph spin out, and that's ok for me

This is really useful info re gear ratios (and answers my earlier q - thanks) and tyre widths. thanks! Where have you gone in latin america - any particular routes you would recommend - whilst patagonia is top of the list need to be flexible due to the current situation and still have an open mind regardless! thanks!

I love my Croix de Fer and have been on a few multi-month loaded/camping tours but I don't think it would meet your needs.

Reasons:

• I carry camping gear/clothing appropriate to European summers and use 2 Backrollers, 2 front Frontrollers and a bar bag (all Ortlieb). I do carry a stove and one emergency meal and up to 2.5L water but I mostly use restaurants and don't really self cater

• But I don't put anything on top of rack (and probably wouldn't given the rear springyness from existing load

• When loaded the back can sometimes feel a bit "springy" - not an issue but I'm on European roads

• Not a lot of mudguard clearance. I've gone down to 700x32 and struggle to get 6mm clearance

• Toe-overlap - never caused me problems but some people hate it (some don't notice it)

• I just have heel clearance to rear panniers (size 9 feet/shoes) but it's tight and not a lot of space to spare

• Only two bottle mounts, both inside main frame i.e. no space for one under downtube

• Gearing it comes with is probably not what you'd want

The Croix de Fer great bike and if e.g. it got stolen I'd likely buy same again, but I'd question it being suited to your trip.

But you might want to have a look at Genesis' Tour de Fer. Met somebody with one in a French camp site and they loved it and I liked it but it isn't cheap! I can't recommend it as I don't know it and don't know the terrain you are planning on. But it might be a bit closer than the Croix de Fer.

Ian

Thanks Ian, much appreciated had seen one earlier in the week and really liked it so great info. Main hesitation was with regard to its gearing so this is all super helpful. And yes have started to think re accessories, dynamo and air fare etc. been putting money aside for a some time but definitely going to have to consider this all carefully!

Unsure of exact weight at this time but assuming a good tourer will be able to deal with whatever i need!

I am 5ft 8inches approx, male and light at about 61kg.

Thanks again - all really helpful and any further thoughts and advice always welcome!

[djb]

Hi all,

Thanks so much for all the really helpful replies - they are much appreciated despite the delayed response (apologies)!
--no problem, glad you've responded with other questions

Thanks for the thoughts on stanforth, thorn (had a good long chat with helpful assistant!) and spa cycles all, hadn't come across these before so really useful to add to the options!

Initially I was hoping to get a bike which might bridge both gravel / bikepacking and also for this longer tour but from your responses and further deliberation I don't think this would be appropriate as I don't think a bike appropriate to gravel / bikepacking will fit my requirements for this trip and so will probably go all in for a full-on tourer (thanks @pwa)
--full on tourer imo is better for being more suited to carrying lots of stuff and bike still being competent with lots of weight on it

those on thin tyres really struggled on the rough surfaces. I would also go for low gears as the hills were tough. I would also look at the luggage carrying capability of the bike, towards the bottom of Chile the supply points were up to 4 days cycling apart.

I was wondering how wide your tyres would need to be at a minimum do you think (friend is thinking about taking his current bike so looking at tyre clearance). Also any thoughts on gear inches in particular that you would recommend? Really useful to know re supplies, any thoughts on water carrying capacity (will take a purifier)? Thanks!

--again, I'd recommend at least 2 inch tires, so much easier on looser surfaces. For a water filter, I took a usb powered Steripen, as I knew I'd be in cheap hotels often. My travelling buddy uses a Sawyer filter, which I would use if I were going to be off on my own a lot and not around electric plugs. My Steripen worked great, used it on both trips , lasts a good long time on a charge and worked great.

I've traveled in Latin America (not south yet) and highly recommend very low gearing and at least 2in tires. My bike is a 26er but given that it's pretty much a no brainer to have a spare folding tire with you, whether you have this or that probably isn't really an issue. Use top quality tires in great shape and you'll be fine.
That said, I'm still fond of 26 because its what I have, I like the slightly lower gearing, no toe strike even with fenders, and yes the unlikely chance I need to source a tire easier in smalltown somewhere.
But a lot of good new tires not available in 26...

I use derailleurs, and still find a mtb triple to be best for loaded touring, 40,50 + pounds of carrying extra water food stuff in mountainous terrain. For me a 44/32/22 still is great, and the 22 gets used a hell of a lot. Long climbs, short very steep stuff or battling killer headwinds , the 22t is great.
No matter your gearing, it's a bonus to have well under 20 gear inches. My bike is 16.7g.i. with 2 inch tires. Top gear 103, so about 55kph spin out, and that's ok for me

This is really useful info re gear ratios (and answers my earlier q - thanks) and tyre widths. thanks! Where have you gone in latin america - any particular routes you would recommend - whilst patagonia is top of the list need to be flexible due to the current situation and still have an open mind regardless! thanks!

--Ive done about half of Mexico and down through Central america finishing in Costa Rica. Like I said, I would love to tour in South America but covid got in way and hopefully I can do it before I'm too old of an old geezer (I'm probably as old as your parents)
I personally found Mexico to be really neat, started in the south of Mexico for the downwards heading Central America trip, liked Mexico so much I returned the next year to the same city in the south of Mexico (Oaxaca) but this time headed north to about part way up Mexico, flying back from Leon. Guatemala was super cool too, more rough edged overall than Mexico, but then honestly, I liked all the places I rode through, all pretty neat adventures.
Patagonia has always appealed to me, but distances are great and way more wild camping etc so basically you're going to be carrying more stuff, food, water etc, and cool cold temperatures, so more clothing.
Basically there are so many neat places to ride and plan adventures, but some are going to be much harder than others. Being high up in Andes = harder and cold, and more remote areas come with the supply aspect etc, so you've got to be sure of taking care of yourself and knowing how to deal with adversity. My Mexico and Central America trips were fairly easy in that we nearly always stayed in cheap hotels, and generally had access to stores etc, plus my Spanish is pretty good, so I have the advantage to be able to speak easily to folks about this and that.

I love my Croix de Fer and have been on a few multi-month loaded/camping tours but I don't think it would meet your needs.

Reasons:

• I carry camping gear/clothing appropriate to European summers and use 2 Backrollers, 2 front Frontrollers and a bar bag (all Ortlieb). I do carry a stove and one emergency meal and up to 2.5L water but I mostly use restaurants and don't really self cater

• But I don't put anything on top of rack (and probably wouldn't given the rear springyness from existing load

• When loaded the back can sometimes feel a bit "springy" - not an issue but I'm on European roads

• Not a lot of mudguard clearance. I've gone down to 700x32 and struggle to get 6mm clearance

• Toe-overlap - never caused me problems but some people hate it (some don't notice it)

• I just have heel clearance to rear panniers (size 9 feet/shoes) but it's tight and not a lot of space to spare

• Only two bottle mounts, both inside main frame i.e. no space for one under downtube

• Gearing it comes with is probably not what you'd want

The Croix de Fer great bike and if e.g. it got stolen I'd likely buy same again, but I'd question it being suited to your trip.

But you might want to have a look at Genesis' Tour de Fer. Met somebody with one in a French camp site and they loved it and I liked it but it isn't cheap! I can't recommend it as I don't know it and don't know the terrain you are planning on. But it might be a bit closer than the Croix de Fer.

Ian

Thanks Ian, much appreciated had seen one earlier in the week and really liked it so great info. Main hesitation was with regard to its gearing so this is all super helpful. And yes have started to think re accessories, dynamo and air fare etc. been putting money aside for a some time but definitely going to have to consider this all carefully!

Unsure of exact weight at this time but assuming a good tourer will be able to deal with whatever i need!

I am 5ft 8inches approx, male and light at about 61kg.

Thanks again - all really helpful and any further thoughts and advice always welcome!

[djb]

why I like 2" tires....
and why using four panniers still has real life advantages for room for carrying stuff. Plus easy off easy on for carrying bike up stairs etc etc and easier to just put extra stuff in.

[djb]

check out the crazyguyonabike.com site for trip journals of specific countries and regions, lots of good info and routes etc from pre covid anyway.

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?doctype=journal

[Mr.Benton]

Hi all,

...

Initially I was hoping to get a bike which might bridge both gravel / bikepacking and also for this longer tour but from your responses and further deliberation I don't think this would be appropriate as I don't think a bike appropriate to gravel / bikepacking will fit my requirements for this trip and so will probably go all in for a full-on tourer (thanks @pwa)

those on thin tyres really struggled on the rough surfaces. I would also go for low gears as the hills were tough. I would also look at the luggage carrying capability of the bike, towards the bottom of Chile the supply points were up to 4 days cycling apart.

I was wondering how wide your tyres would need to be at a minimum do you think (friend is thinking about taking his current bike so looking at tyre clearance). Also any thoughts on gear inches in particular that you would recommend? Really useful to know re supplies, any thoughts on water carrying capacity (will take a purifier)? Thanks!
...

It is difficult to say what the minimum width of tyres would suit, but one cyclist I met was on a Genesis TDF which comes with 700x37c tyres and he managed OK. I wouldn't want to go narrower than this.
Regarding gear inches, my lowest gear was 24T at the front and 34 at the back which gives an 18.4 gear inches, there were a few times when I wanted a lower gear.
I took two 0.75L water bottles and this was enough. there were plenty of streams to fill up from, and I used a water filter when I thought it was necessary. I also had a water bladder to use a camp, this saved me running out of water when cooking tea and breakfast
My route was San Carlos Bariloche -> El Bolson -> Cholila->Esquel->Trevelin->Futaleufu->Villa Santa Lucia->La Junta->Puyuhapi->Coyhaique->Puerto Tranquilo->Cochrane->Villa O'Higgins. The remote sections were Coyhaique to Peurto Tranquilo and Cochrane and Villa O'Higgins.
Most of the route I carried 2 days food and there was plenty of places to stop and replenish. Although I say 2 days food it was often the case that I bought a bag of pasta or cereal and it would last 4 or more days, it wasn't possible to buy smaller packets. It was on the remote sections that I would carry a full 4 days of food.

[djb]

Hi all,

...

Initially I was hoping to get a bike which might bridge both gravel / bikepacking and also for this longer tour but from your responses and further deliberation I don't think this would be appropriate as I don't think a bike appropriate to gravel / bikepacking will fit my requirements for this trip and so will probably go all in for a full-on tourer (thanks @pwa)

those on thin tyres really struggled on the rough surfaces. I would also go for low gears as the hills were tough. I would also look at the luggage carrying capability of the bike, towards the bottom of Chile the supply points were up to 4 days cycling apart.

I was wondering how wide your tyres would need to be at a minimum do you think (friend is thinking about taking his current bike so looking at tyre clearance). Also any thoughts on gear inches in particular that you would recommend? Really useful to know re supplies, any thoughts on water carrying capacity (will take a purifier)? Thanks!
...

It is difficult to say what the minimum width of tyres would suit, but one cyclist I met was on a Genesis TDF which comes with 700x37c tyres and he managed OK. I wouldn't want to go narrower than this.
Regarding gear inches, my lowest gear was 24T at the front and 34 at the back which gives an 18.4 gear inches, there were a few times when I wanted a lower gear.
I took two 0.75L water bottles and this was enough. there were plenty of streams to fill up from, and I used a water filter when I thought it was necessary. I also had a water bladder to use a camp, this saved me running out of water when cooking tea and breakfast
My route was San Carlos Bariloche -> El Bolson -> Cholila->Esquel->Trevelin->Futaleufu->Villa Santa Lucia->La Junta->Puyuhapi->Coyhaique->Puerto Tranquilo->Cochrane->Villa O'Higgins. The remote sections were Coyhaique to Peurto Tranquilo and Cochrane and Villa O'Higgins.
Most of the route I carried 2 days food and there was plenty of places to stop and replenish. Although I say 2 days food it was often the case that I bought a bag of pasta or cereal and it would last 4 or more days, it wasn't possible to buy smaller packets. It was on the remote sections that I would carry a full 4 days of food.

with my 16.7 g.i low (which I would have thought to be overkill) on the Central America trip, there were a handful of times where I could barely get up stuff even with this gear. One time in particular was in Costa Rica, so I had been on the road for about 2 months, so pretty good legs, but I had to stand and zig zag , stop when my heart was about to go pop, wait and do some more. It was most likely well over 20, maybe 25%, I have no clue, but I was completely surprised by how I couldnt ride up it without stopping, even standing.

This is an exception, but where really low gearing like mine is nice is for all those times when you are tired or hungry or feeling sick, and its just nice to be able to downshift and spin slowly up something. Being on loose surfaces and offroad stuff will mean less standing, and more chance of wheel spinning and or wallowing due to soft stuff, so a good low gear really does have its advantages.

I can't emphasize how happy I was with my triple setup, 44/32/22 and 11-34 and 2inch tires, over numerous trips. Tire choice really does depend on what surfaces you expect to be the majority, my tires were slicks basically, as I figured I'd mostly be on asphalt, and the dirt stuff I was on was perfectly fine for me with those tires, lowered pressures and they were good. They are Schwalbe Supremes, and I was extremely happy with them for wear, ride quality and coping with various surfaces---BUT I also was aware that chunky monkey sharp rocked roads would not be the best place for them.
There are all kinds of tire options out there for tread and sidewall toughness. The Supremes were great for me, no flats over 3 major trips, about 10,000kms on them too, which is pretty damn good in my opinion and more than I expected out of them.

ps, I carried a couple of spare water bottles in a rear pannier, a 2L and a 1 L, plus I had a couple of folding water bladders as backup, but really didnt need to use (wanted to have them in case we ended up doing some far off remote stuff, which we didnt really do)

I steripened water each morning from taps, and put in my bike bottles and store bought water bottles in my pannier, to always have extra water, mostly due to it sometimes being really damn hot and I hate running low on water. Small stores and gas stations usually were around to buy some cold drinks, which is really nice on super hot long days.

[djb]

steripens work, but I was always careful with it not to drop it and break the end with the light.
Sawyer systems apparently can't be allowed to freeze, as it buggers up the teeny tiny tubes inside that do the filtering, but have a solid reputation of working well, simple and are light.

[pq]

My expedition tourer is now more than 20 years old (and was way over your budget), but it terms of reliability and fixability on the road, you'd struggle to find anything better. You could build something much cheaper based on the logic I used, or likely someone like Thorn or Spa could do it for you.

It is all low tech, easily fixed at the roadside with parts you can carry or find in poor countries, extremely reliable, has very low gears and is robust. Much of the tech used on gravel bikes is great for day rides etc but is too difficult to fix if you're out in the wilds, and having 10 speed or more is too sensitive I think.

This is a detailed description of my bike. Since then it's acquired V brakes (much better than the ones in the pic) and a few parts have been replaced which wore out (eg the rims) but it's still going strong after more than 20 years of abuse.

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/pag ... 65310&v=3t

[rareposter]

This guy is worth checking out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3zNLcCVkZA (a video from his Patagonia tour)

Cyclingabout, he's got a good YouTube channel full of touring hints, tips and opinions. He's a brand ambassador for Koga Bikes but he's pretty upfront about it and isn't shy of honest reviews. Have a flip through his whole channel, there's a load of ideas there about what to carry, what equipment to use and so on.

He's a big fan of Rohloff hub and a belt drive which is obviously way above your £2000 budget but derailleurs are fine too.

[djb]

My expedition tourer is now more than 20 years old (and was way over your budget), but it terms of reliability and fixability on the road, you'd struggle to find anything better. You could build something much cheaper based on the logic I used, or likely someone like Thorn or Spa could do it for you.

It is all low tech, easily fixed at the roadside with parts you can carry or find in poor countries, extremely reliable, has very low gears and is robust. Much of the tech used on gravel bikes is great for day rides etc but is too difficult to fix if you're out in the wilds, and having 10 speed or more is too sensitive I think.

This is a detailed description of my bike. Since then it's acquired V brakes (much better than the ones in the pic) and a few parts have been replaced which wore out (eg the rims) but it's still going strong after more than 20 years of abuse.

https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/pag ... 65310&v=3t

It's really good that you brought up your bike, mine is only slightly "newer", with incremental 9 speed from 8 (I seem to remember yours being 8 ) , pretty basic shifters (your dt are tougher though, I just rode on dt so much back in the day, I've never had an urge to go back) and then I have basic tried and true mech discs.

Yes, I like 9 spd and would tend to agree that 10 and higher get into availability, cost and persnicktyness. I rationalized 9 because I have other 9 spd bikes, and that it's old enough it might be easier to source in far off places. Though still not touching on dynasis compatibility issues. But for a short trip? Probably not an issue, just like wheel sizes.
Re rim vs disc. While I love disc and am happy with basic old bb7, I do admit that I've never toured in constant rain and dirt roads in Andes downhills, so a good v brake will work perfectly fine. I'm just comfortable with mech discs now so it's ok.
I've also never encountered peanut butter mud so bad it messed up a derailleur, and I'm perfectly comfortable with derailleurs, so again, completely useable in 99% of my riding (touch wood)

And as you say, budget budget budget. I'd rather be out doing a trip and money to travel etc than having a rohlof belt bike and not travel.

[MrCJF]

something more traditional:
...
genesis croix de fer
....

I love my Croix de Fer and have been on a few multi-month loaded/camping tours but I don't think it would meet your needs.

Reasons:

• I carry camping gear/clothing appropriate to European summers and use 2 Backrollers, 2 front Frontrollers and a bar bag (all Ortlieb). I do carry a stove and one emergency meal and up to 2.5L water but I mostly use restaurants and don't really self cater

• But I don't put anything on top of rack (and probably wouldn't given the rear springyness from existing load

• When loaded the back can sometimes feel a bit "springy" - not an issue but I'm on European roads

[list]Not a lot of mudguard clearance. I've gone down to 700x32 and struggle to get 6mm clearance[/list]

• Toe-overlap - never caused me problems but some people hate it (some don't notice it)

• I just have heel clearance to rear panniers (size 9 feet/shoes) but it's tight and not a lot of space to spare

• Only two bottle mounts, both inside main frame i.e. no space for one under downtube

• Gearing it comes with is probably not what you'd want

The Croix de Fer great bike and if e.g. it got stolen I'd likely buy same again, but I'd question it being suited to your trip.

But you might want to have a look at Genesis' Tour de Fer. Met somebody with one in a French camp site and they loved it and I liked it but it isn't cheap! I can't recommend it as I don't know it and don't know the terrain you are planning on. But it might be a bit closer than the Croix de Fer.

Ian

I got 35 mm tyres (Continetal CX or Schwalbe allrounds) on my CdF with SKS mudguards. I did warm up and widen out the pinched part of the guard that goes under the fork to prevent rub, but had no problems since. I have a 2014 model (I've actually just listed it for sale on the forum), but I understand tyre clearance has improved since then.

FYI I'm replacing the CdF with a Tour de Fer 30.

[pq]

I think, within the ideas behind my bike there is room for difference. I can see the sense in mechanical discs - not an option for me as the frame wasn't built for them, and I'm happy with the Rigida CSS rims I'm now using which eliminate rim wear. When I built my Roberts, 9 speed was the new thing, but over decades it's shown itself to be robust and reliable, so I don't think there's much issue there either. I probably should have gone 7 speed for a stronger rear wheel, but the set-up I have has caused no problems. The big change since I built mine is Rohloff gears, but I'm fine on my derailleurs, and as you say, that's far outside the OPs budget. I posted my bike not becasue I think the OP should copy it - that would be far too expensive, but as a philosophy behind an expedition tourer which can be adapted to buying a bike in 2022. Interestingly I also have a modern gravel bike, but I've found that for longer trips where I'm carrying kit, my old Roberts performs much better. The new stuff works better, but is just too sensitive and temperamental. The Roberts, in contrast, just rolls on....

[simonhill]

The OP has asked for a bike for a multi week trip to Patagonia, but is that what he really wants.

If this is essentially a one off trip of a lifetime type tour, then what he actually wants is more likely a bike he will be happy riding under normal circumstances, week after week, back home, BUT will also handle a short trip to S America. Given this, then a modern gravel bike or something similar may be what he wants - I know not.

I rarely comment on bike choices now as I am in the dinosaur age of flat bar 26" LHT, but such a bike, or a Thorn, or a built up MTB would be most suitable for this trip, however as I said, I think this may be overkill unless he plans to tour regularly in harsh conditions.

[djb]

The OP has asked for a bike for a multi week trip to Patagonia, but is that what he really wants.

If this is essentially a one off trip of a lifetime type tour, then what he actually wants is more likely a bike he will be happy riding under normal circumstances, week after week, back home, BUT will also handle a short trip to S America. Given this, then a modern gravel bike or something similar may be what he wants - I know not.

I rarely comment on bike choices now as I am in the dinosaur age of flat bar 26" LHT, but such a bike, or a Thorn, or a built up MTB would be most suitable for this trip, however as I said, I think this may be overkill unless he plans to tour regularly in harsh conditions.

a valid take on it, but certainly from my experience, tire width limitations could be an issue, depending on the bike, just as the gearing--for various surfaces and unpleasantness of riding with too narrow tires, as well as for relentless headwinds and not low enough gearing. Patagonia is renowned for wicked, relentless winds, but while I've read lots of trip journals from the area and like I mentioned, my biking partner went all the way down to the end (he did Alaska to bottom of S America) , because I havent ridden there and its been a while since I've read stuff, I forget which way the prevailing winds go etc etc.

the wisest thing to do, and very easy to do, is to read up on as many individuals experiences there to get a real take on what you'll be dealing with, and then go from there on making equipment decisions.