Cycling to a recycling centre

hemo
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by hemo »

AndyK wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 11:58pm For mjr's list:
. You simply enter "BIKE" in the "registration number" field on the booking form.
I may try this with my local centre with the booking form to see what occurs.
Stradageek
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by Stradageek »

Latest update follows.

Below is the local councillor's reply to my issue and my response to his response - ding ding, round three :)

Dear Sir,

Apologies for delay in getting back to you on this, but I have only just received this response from the relevant officer, which in summary says….

“The e-mail from Mr & Mrs Lindsay asks whether we would be able to routinely accept cyclists and pedestrians at our Household Waste Recycling Centres. Although this is something that we would like to enable, in order to support the Council’s sustainability agenda, we also have to take into consideration that these are busy, operational sites and the Council has a responsibility to keep residents using our sites safe. Therefore, it is for these reasons that we do not allow access for cyclists or pedestrians without prior notification. In West Northamptonshire, we have a comprehensive kerbside collection service that residents can use to recycle a wide variety of waste. Consequently, the majority of our customers arrive with a car load of waste, which are normally items which we don’t collect at the kerbside and only a few customers would like bring items small enough to carry on foot or on a bicycle. We can make arrangements for these residents if they notify us in advance, so that a member of staff can accompany them onto site through the flow of traffic. In conjunction with our HWRC service contractor Urbaser, we will continue to review our service provision, taking into account Health and Safety guidance, industry good practice, safe site operating procedures and the expectations of our residents”

I hope this at least gives you some insight into the Council’s thinking behind how it currently operates these facilities in terms of cyclists,


Best Wishes,


Thanks for the detailed reply Mike,

I feel somewhat embarrassed about continuing this discussion as I know you guys are kept very busy with much bigger and more serious issues. However, if I could beg your indulgence I'd like to answer a few of the points raised by Urbaser.

Prior to the COVID restrictions I was allowed unrestricted access to the Ecton site by bicycle (+ trailer) for over 10yrs. I do not a) feel that the traffic volumes have changed in this period and b) I am unaware of a single incident involving injury or risk to a cyclist in any recycling centre across the whole of the UK, so what has changed?

It is also inaccurate to say that cyclists can only carry small loads, especially with the increasingly ubiquitous electric cargo bikes that are now available. I have arrived at Ecton with at least three scrap bicycles on my trailer - and interestingly I believe that (as I now place scrap metal on my lawn to be taken by a commercial collector) Ecton is being deprived of the revenue from my scrap metal.

Finally, I have been forced to subscribe to the council's garden waste service (£42pa) when I can quite happily transport my Brown Bin on my cycle trailer and would thus avoid this charge.

As I mentioned before, I have used the 'Notify us first' procedure proposed by Urbaser. I arrived at the agreed time to find that no-one on the site had been briefed to expect me and I was accommodated with the usual friendly good humour. I therefore see little point in being required to give advance warning.

Perhaps a sign saying:

Cyclists please wait for assistance

Would be a simple solution - over to you Urbaser

Many thanks
bohrsatom
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by bohrsatom »

My local authority has only recently permitted pedestrian and cyclist access to their recycling centres, which require pre-booking for those in cars. From talking to my local councillor, the council were worried that people would come on foot as a way to avoid the booking system. From what I can tell, and based on the strange looks I get when I arrive by bike, I don't think this has happened.

For "safety reasons" I'm only allowed access to the very entrance of the site where I leave my bits in a shopping trolley to be sorted later on. The council say this is because it's a busy operational site, blah blah blah, as others have put here. I find this excuse baffling. This is the same council whose transport officers install unsafe cycling infrastructure, whose traffic calming creates pinch points which put cyclists in danger, who fail to install crossings at busy junctions or outside schools. Cycling to the site is likely to put you in close contact with the same cars and lorries they are so concerned about. If they feel a duty of care to vulnerable road users in the recycling site, this should apply to the public highway too.
Jdsk
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by Jdsk »

Stradageek wrote: 15 Feb 2022, 10:38am ...

Perhaps a sign saying:

Cyclists please wait for assistance

Would be a simple solution

...
I like this approach. Could include pedestrians.

If anyone tries please could they report back.

Thanks

Jonathan
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mjr
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by mjr »

bohrsatom wrote: 17 Feb 2022, 9:04am My local authority has only recently permitted pedestrian and cyclist access to their recycling centres, which require pre-booking for those in cars.
Which one, please? So I can update the list on page 1.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Jdsk
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by Jdsk »

Redbridge, Oxford, and possibly all of those run by Oxfordshire County Council:

"We have a duty to make sure that our recycling centres are run in a safe manner and to protect the welfare of all customers. For pedestrians' own safety we cannot permit them to walk into sites as there is no designated footpath or safe walkway, so they would be crossing the path of traffic while carrying waste.

We acknowledge that once on site customers leave their vehicles and walk around the site to access containers. However, they would not be crossing the flow of traffic as they would be if they were to walk into the sites. Bicycles can use the sites as they are part of the flow of traffic and road users.

We can appreciate there are some items which cannot be accepted in your kerbside collection service, or if you live locally and can walk to a site you feel you are not contributing to vehicle emissions, but unfortunately the safety of site users is our priority.

Some districts provide comprehensive bring sites located in supermarket car parks or community areas: these often collect similar items to household waste recycling centres and are often more easily accessible on foot. Use our waste wizard to search for an item and find information on where you can recycle it."


https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/resident ... ng-centres

Jonathan
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by Psamathe »

bohrsatom wrote: 17 Feb 2022, 9:04am ....
For "safety reasons" I'm only allowed access to the very entrance of the site where I leave my bits in a shopping trolley to be sorted later on. The council say this is because it's a busy operational site, blah blah blah, as others have put here. I find this excuse baffling. ....
If H&S meant it was unsafe for people to walk on the site, car & van drivers would be arriving and staying in their car and a Council employee would be unloading the car. But reality is drivers park, get out of their cars and carry stuff to and fro car to skip. So if it's safe for a car driver to walk around carrying bulky items why not safe for a cyclist to walk around?

Ian
bohrsatom
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by bohrsatom »

mjr wrote: 17 Feb 2022, 9:55am
bohrsatom wrote: 17 Feb 2022, 9:04am My local authority has only recently permitted pedestrian and cyclist access to their recycling centres, which require pre-booking for those in cars.
Which one, please? So I can update the list on page 1.
Places nearby that I'm aware of are:

London Borough of Kingston (limited to Sunday afternoons only)
London Borough of Richmond (bikes but no pedestrians)
London Borough of Merton
London Borough of Southwark
London Borough of Sutton
London Borough of Wandsworth
mattheus
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by mattheus »

Jdsk wrote: 17 Feb 2022, 9:57am Redbridge, Oxford, and possibly all of those run by Oxfordshire County Council:

"We have a duty to make sure that our recycling centres are run in a safe manner and to protect the welfare of all customers. For pedestrians' own safety we cannot permit them to walk into sites as there is no designated footpath or safe walkway, so they would be crossing the path of traffic while carrying waste.

We acknowledge that once on site customers leave their vehicles and walk around the site to access containers. However, they would not be crossing the flow of traffic as they would be if they were to walk into the sites. Bicycles can use the sites as they are part of the flow of traffic and road users.

We can appreciate there are some items which cannot be accepted in your kerbside collection service, or if you live locally and can walk to a site you feel you are not contributing to vehicle emissions, but unfortunately the safety of site users is our priority.

Some districts provide comprehensive bring sites located in supermarket car parks or community areas: these often collect similar items to household waste recycling centres and are often more easily accessible on foot. Use our waste wizard to search for an item and find information on where you can recycle it."


https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/resident ... ng-centres

Jonathan
Thanks. We [cyclists] should be grateful we can ride onto these sites. But the pedestrian safety issue is Class A twaddle.
Do they know that the Road Traffic Act 1974 [and the Highway Code!] allows you or I to walk down the road leading to the site?

If I lived a short walk from a site, I'd walk down the road with a small bag of rubbish just to make the point ..
Vorpal
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by Vorpal »

I guess all these H&S folks would be horrified by Norwegian recycling centres. Not only do drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists wander about the site, but most also have compost collection and a freecycling section, where people can leave stuff that's too good to throw away, and other users come to browse the free stuff, which can include large furniture items.

On thing that they do in Norway though, that I think is good, is they usually have a public side and an employee side. So, all of the skips, places to leave stuff, etc, will be in a row, or semi-circle or something, and visitors go down / around one side, and employees, workers & machinery go down / around the other. That way, pedestrians and cyclists only need to watch out for drivers & each other, and not wheel-loaders, backhoes, and skip lorries.
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mjr
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by mjr »

Vorpal wrote: 17 Feb 2022, 2:11pm On thing that they do in Norway though, that I think is good, is they usually have a public side and an employee side. So, all of the skips, places to leave stuff, etc, will be in a row, or semi-circle or something, and visitors go down / around one side, and employees, workers & machinery go down / around the other. That way, pedestrians and cyclists only need to watch out for drivers & each other, and not wheel-loaders, backhoes, and skip lorries.
The King's Lynn one (actually Saddlebow) has a similar layout and I think most of Norfolk's do.

Weston-super-Mare (North Somerset) had the works lorries all kept to one side of the skips behind a wall, but the other side was a dead-end mixing staff and public vehicles. It was a complete madness with motorists reversing all over the place, sometimes almost into each other or the small recycling bins. Cyclists still seemed to be allowed (no-one ever challenged me!) and there may even have been a footway into the site, but that was 10 years ago now. If H&S haven't clamped down at least to protect the workers, and there's been no serious injury from a vehicle, I'll be surprised.

Edit to add: https://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/my-servic ... ng-centres says foot and cycle access is now banned. Idiots.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Jdsk
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by Jdsk »

Vorpal wrote: 17 Feb 2022, 2:11pmOn thing that they do in Norway though, that I think is good, is they usually have a public side and an employee side. So, all of the skips, places to leave stuff, etc, will be in a row, or semi-circle or something, and visitors go down / around one side, and employees, workers & machinery go down / around the other. That way, pedestrians and cyclists only need to watch out for drivers & each other, and not wheel-loaders, backhoes, and skip lorries.
Screenshot 2022-02-17 at 15.06.40.png
Redbridge, Oxford: same design.

There are some skips and cabinets at the bottom on the outside of the public route. The last time I was there they were for bikes and other small discrete stuff. I don't know if they're emptied while the public have access.

Jonathan

PS: The design of clean/dirty and public/private etc areas in general is a fascinating topic in architecture. For example in changing rooms and swimming pools... or the House of Lords... or Masonic Lodges...
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by Vorpal »

Jdsk wrote: 17 Feb 2022, 3:12pm

Redbridge, Oxford: same design.

There are some skips and cabinets at the bottom on the outside of the public route. The last time I was there they were for bikes and other small discrete stuff. I don't know if they're emptied while the public have access.

Jonathan

PS: The design of clean/dirty and public/private etc areas in general is a fascinating topic in architecture. For example in changing rooms and swimming pools... or the House of Lords... or Masonic Lodges...
That is fairly similar to the ones in Norway. The ones I've used in Essex were not very much like that. They seem like someone was just copying that same sort of thing without any understanding of how it actually worked. One had a loop for people to go around, but the skip lorries were parked in a neighbouring area and had to operate where the exit was. The other was larger, and all the skips were down the middle, but drivers went down both sides, and furthermore there was a yellow box / no stopping area that was always full of cars whose drivers had double parked because the other stopping area was much further from the skips. The skip lorries had to go through driving lanes to remove skips. They were pretty much always chaos when I went.
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― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Stradageek
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by Stradageek »

Round three is underway:

Cllr Mike Hxxxxxx
Tue, 15 Feb, 10:33

to me

Thanks for your comments – let me go back to the officer in question as you make some worthy points

Mike
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Re: Cycling to a recycling centre

Post by Tompsk »

Stradageek wrote: 18 Feb 2022, 8:21am Round three is underway:

Cllr Mike Hxxxxxx
Tue, 15 Feb, 10:33

to me

Thanks for your comments – let me go back to the officer in question as you make some worthy points

Mike
I wish you well in your attempts to get access for cyclists. Unfortunately I've had the feeling from some councils that they have made a decision and then expend more effort in coming up with excuses and spurious reasons than actually reapraising or resolving the issue. I hope it doesn't end up in the catch-all "because our insurance doesn't allow it" category...
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