Europe 2022

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
zerkalo
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by zerkalo »

horizon wrote: 9 Jun 2022, 10:39am I have some experience (but not a huge amount) of travelling to France with a bicycle - some from years ago, some more recent. Two questions pop up (some of this might have been discussed on a another thread):

1. Why do people bother with the TGVs (and other services such as Ouigo) or indeed Eurostar? I talked to a family at a main raiilway station (Bordeaux) struggling with getting on and off TGV trains and they were converted (not by me, they already were!) - no more TGVs, too much hassle. And there is the excellent hassle-free TER network. What am I missing?

2. What's wrong with Eurotunnel for bikes? Genuine question, we just don't seem to hear it discussed much. I prefer ferries but still, how does Eurotunnel stack up?
For me personally, the selling point of the Eurostar in particular is the speed and convenience at a price I could afford - I could then be home in London from Paris within a few hours with very little hassle indeed if only they would take bikes on board the train of course. It would take me a lot longer and possibly cost me much more to do that via TER and ferry. I would not mind at all otherwise to take a slower train as I really do enjoy slow travel. But annual leave time is limited unfortunately so it would not always be possible to do that.
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horizon
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by horizon »

zerkalo wrote: 9 Jun 2022, 11:26am
For me personally, the selling point of the Eurostar in particular is the speed and convenience at a price I could afford - I could then be home in London from Paris within a few hours with very little hassle indeed if only they would take bikes on board the train of course. It would take me a lot longer and possibly cost me much more to do that via TER and ferry. I would not mind at all otherwise to take a slower train as I really do enjoy slow travel. But annual leave time is limited unfortunately so it would not always be possible to do that.
I take your point but it would be nice to see some price and time comparisons (not from you, or I for that matter).

Given that the TERs are fast and that the Shuttle trains and Eurostar travel AFAIK at the same speed in the tunnel, the difference might not be that great. My suspicion is that everyone assumes that the TGV is the only sensible way to do it as that is what is offered.

BTW, I'm saying this not just because of the actual difficulties of getting a bike on Eurostar/TGV but because I like the "slow" trains so I am biased in this respect - other people's views on this might be different.

Anyway, to make us both happy, here is a video of a "slow" TER train travelling at 140km/hr:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj9d1cj7-_Q
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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mjr
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by mjr »

horizon wrote: 9 Jun 2022, 10:39am 2. What's wrong with Eurotunnel for bikes? Genuine question, we just don't seem to hear it discussed much. I prefer ferries but still, how does Eurotunnel stack up?
Well, Eurotunnel won't let us all ride through like Froome (it would be a boring couple of hours riding but no waiting for a departure time), it was impossible to reach the morning van departure if you needed to cross London by train (even on high speed 1) and the afternoon van arrived in France too late to get anywhere much. Departures and arrivals were in places too urban to be pretty, yet too rural to be on a cycle route. No cafe on the train. The Dover-Dunkerque ferries had it beat whenever we considered it.

Oh and Eurotunnel are helmet pushers.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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simonhill
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by simonhill »

Could they think that the mass carriage of bicycles may be liable to duty on the bikes.
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mjr
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by mjr »

simonhill wrote: 9 Jun 2022, 12:30pm Could they think that the mass carriage of bicycles may be liable to duty on the bikes.
More likely that they can't get a straight answer on it from customs on one side!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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pal
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by pal »

The explanation given here (https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/cycle ... e-eurostar) for the continued suspension of the Eurotunnel service is that it's because of the need to check vaccine passports (on entry to France). I don't really understand why this is an issue (they can check passport-passports while you're sitting in the Eurotunnel minibus, so why not vaccine-passports?), but that seems to be the (semi-)official line, anyway.

(Though I also agree with mjr that the Eurotunnel service wasn't the most convenient, really -- I'm not sure it saved very much time over taking the ferry.)
Jdsk
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by Jdsk »

pal wrote: 9 Jun 2022, 1:01pm The explanation given here (https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/cycle ... e-eurostar) for the continued suspension of the Eurotunnel service is that it's because of the need to check vaccine passports (on entry to France). I don't really understand why this is an issue (they can check passport-passports while you're sitting in the Eurotunnel minibus, so why not vaccine-passports?), but that seems to be the (semi-)official line, anyway.
The linked article is about Eurostar, not the Eurotunnel service.

Jonathan

EDITED: See below.
Last edited by Jdsk on 9 Jun 2022, 3:03pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jdsk
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by Jdsk »

zerkalo wrote: 9 Jun 2022, 9:13am... is there a reliable bike courier service to use in Paris if Eurostar still don’t accept bikes on trains at that time?
There'a mention in that article of a delivery company... First Luggage:
https://eurostarluggagedelivery.com

Jonathan
pal
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by pal »

Jdsk wrote: 9 Jun 2022, 1:07pm
The linked article is about Eurostar, not the Eurotunnel service.

Jonathan
Yep, but there's a paragraph about half way down about Eurotunnel: 'With the Eurotunnel cycle carriage service from Folkestone still closed due to French authorities requiring proof of vaccination from travellers, at the moment the main ways using public transport to reach the European continent with your bike are likely to be by ferry or flying. Certain long distance bus services, such as Blablacar Bus and the Bike Express may also carry cycles.'
Jdsk
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by Jdsk »

pal wrote: 9 Jun 2022, 1:46pm
Jdsk wrote: 9 Jun 2022, 1:07pm The linked article is about Eurostar, not the Eurotunnel service.
Yep, but there's a paragraph about half way down about Eurotunnel: 'With the Eurotunnel cycle carriage service from Folkestone still closed due to French authorities requiring proof of vaccination from travellers, at the moment the main ways using public transport to reach the European continent with your bike are likely to be by ferry or flying. Certain long distance bus services, such as Blablacar Bus and the Bike Express may also carry cycles.'
You're right.

Sorry

Jonathan
simonhill
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by simonhill »

zerkalo wrote: 9 Jun 2022, 11:26am
For me personally, the selling point of the Eurostar in particular is the speed and convenience at a price I could afford - I could then be home in London from Paris within a few hours with very little hassle indeed if only they would take bikes on board the train of course. It would take me a lot longer and possibly cost me much more to do that via TER and ferry. I would not mind at all otherwise to take a slower train as I really do enjoy slow travel. But annual leave time is limited unfortunately so it would not always be possible to do that.

Just did a quick look at TER, which is 2 + hours, then ferry, then train to London which would be 2 + 2 minimum on top, so at least 7 hours overall from Paris. At about £30 a leg, that's £90.

I also put in a quick search on Skyscanner and Ryanair are doing La Rochelle to Stansted, mid August for £20, plus 60ish for bike. 1hr 25 minutes.

It's bl**dy ridiculous that it's so expensive, slow and complicated to avoid flying.
zerkalo
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by zerkalo »

That’s very helpful Simon, thank you. I don’t have much experience taking bikes on planes tbh (in fact the first time I tried to take my checked-in Brompton with me to Athens a few weeks ago it didn’t make it on the same plane as me. Very stressful!). But the Brompton would not be a good option for this self-supported trip. I’d probably be quite stressed out attempting to bag and take a big bike on a Ryanair flight. With 2x panniers added as checked-in luggage presumably too the price of the ticket for the date I’m looking at would be around £170 inc bike. The one-way Eurostar ticket I have bought cost just £50 for a ~2hrs journey for comparison. I’ll have to research the TER + ferry option a bit more and see if that could work.
simonhill
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by simonhill »

When I rode a similar route to yours in 2019, I flew to Bordeaux and joined yours after Cognac (rather than after a cognac). I live 4 miles from Southend airport, so easy for me.

I found flying out and cycling back was easier as I could pack everything at home. Cycled to Caen then ferry and train X2.

Incidentally, I'm hopefully off on Sunday, ferry to St Malo, then pedal somewhere. Unfortunately my planned return from Dieppe is in the middle of the RMT strike, so will be flexible. What's it they used to say - " let the train take the strain!"
bohrsatom
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by bohrsatom »

I’m fine with taking TERs, it’s the lack of Eurostar that’s the biggest pain. On my upcoming trip to Bordeaux I’ll be spending a day and a half travelling via Dover and (eventually) Paris. With Eurostar I could do the trip in one day.

The slow route is much cheaper, and definitely more leisurely (no need to start at the crack of dawn) but only really suitable for a 2 week trip as doing the same in reverse would take up a fair chunk of a week’s holiday.

The situation is making me wonder if I should rethink how I tour: I really hate flying with my bike, mostly due to my desire to ride from A to B, so need to carry stuff to fly with in my panniers. A round trip with bikes in hard bike boxes, camping stuff in a suitcase etc would be much less hassle. Just need to find a friendly hotel to bookend the trip with
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horizon
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by horizon »

simonhill wrote: 9 Jun 2022, 3:25pm Just did a quick look at TER, which is 2 + hours, then ferry, then train to London which would be 2 + 2 minimum on top, so at least 7 hours overall from Paris. At about £30 a leg, that's £90.

I also put in a quick search on Skyscanner and Ryanair are doing La Rochelle to Stansted, mid August for £20, plus 60ish for bike. 1hr 25 minutes.

It's bl**dy ridiculous that it's so expensive, slow and complicated to avoid flying.
Just a quick thought: it's worth calculating the time and hassle involved in flying compared to jumping on a train. My last flight from Alicante (pre-pandemic in 2020) meant long waits at the airport and endless checks and checking in (and that was without a bike). By contrast, getting onto the ferry (and the trains of course) was a jolly affair. Time on the ferry as far as I'm concerned is leisure time not "travel" time. For the flight you have to add on luggage (one might be camping) and, yes, £60 each way for the bike.

I do take your point though - generally it is much quicker and cheaper to fly. It is often the bike however nowadays that tips it the other way. I made the travel back by train and ferry very much part of my last trip so in this way I found it better - not everyone I admit will have the time/interest to do that.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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