Europe 2022

Cycle-touring, Expeditions, Adventures, Major cycle routes NOT LeJoG (see other special board)
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by PDQ Mobile »

simonhill wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 8:35am I almost forgot that this post is about Europe in 2022.
Yes sorry.
My usual thread drift.
And aversion to new technology.

Though there are a couple of points relevant to travel!
francovendee
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by francovendee »

This subject has popped up before.
With the uncertainty of how this pandemic will go I think if you wish to tour in Europe then go ahead and plan your trip but...... plan a a ride in your home country in case rules and outbreaks prevent your first plan going ahead.
At this time of year we start planning where we'll head for but book nothing yet.
I'm lucky in that I live in a quiet part of France but really enjoy visiting other parts of this and other countries.
The first lockdown meant we were restricted to 1 hours outdoor exercise and all within a 1 km radius of home.
We did push the time and distance a little :oops: and discovered hamlets and tracks we never knew.
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mjr
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by mjr »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 6 Jan 2022, 8:47pm What would you do?
I've already posted it, twice.
It is not a Govt "recommendation" but the Home Office website showing accredited test providers.
I expect the Home Office to help me, yes.
I said it was a review not a recommendation so the above quotation marks are misleading. I feel your faith in the Home Office is quaint.
Have you filled one out?
Not yet because I've had at least three trips binned due to the pandemic. I have seen one of someone I know who travelled last autumn.
Paper serves me best.
I am of that generation which views digital as unreliable- with good reason as it turned out.
The problems don't seem inherent to digital. You could have a similar experience if you picked "Lionel Hutz Testing" from a row of physical shops.
simonhill wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 8:35am I almost forgot that this post is about Europe in 2022.
Good point. Reply trimmed to basics. Upshot: don't blindly pick the cheapest and probably avoid Vivisection Clinic. Other posts suggest discounted testers recommended by transport operators work OK.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
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MrsHJ
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by MrsHJ »

For those thinking about travelling but not wanting to commit Brittany’s ferries is currently offering fully flex fares for the same price as semi flex and only £10 more than fixed for cyclists. Airlines are also pretty flexible and I’d add the bikes on nearer to the travel date.

NB I did cycle last year in France/Switzerland and it was fine. I didn’t enjoy the tests and stuff (extra things to go wrong and a bit stressful but was doable).
Last edited by MrsHJ on 7 Jan 2022, 10:32am, edited 2 times in total.
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by PDQ Mobile »

mjr wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 9:39am
Good point. Reply trimmed to basics. Upshot: don't blindly pick the cheapest and probably avoid Vivisection Clinic. Other posts suggest discounted testers recommended by transport operators work OK.
(Snip only for brevity.)


Well when you have actually done it come back and recommend a test provider.

All I can say is that I chose an accredited tester from the Home Office webpage relevant to my location here.
Why pay £100 when you can pay £15?


It's pretty tough if they cock up the reference number because of time restraints- ferry is booked of course.

And the salient point is that it is impossible to know what such a digital mismatch problem is because no detailed reason is given and therefore for an enduser digital incompetent (or anyone?) difficult to resolve.
That is the big negative with the over-reliance on digital.
It wastes so much valuable time.

Keep it simple, keep it safe!

It was the first time I had travelled since pandemic begin.
So it was the first time I had had to do it all.
Übung macht den Meister!
........
I might add it felt wonderful and liberating to be off into France (and elsewhere) after so long. Campsites were very welcoming and tolerant.
I was never asked for proof of vaccination.

((Apologies again to OP for thread diversion))
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mjr
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by mjr »

PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 10:21am All I can say is that I chose an accredited tester from the Home Office webpage relevant to my location here.
Why pay £100 when you can pay £15?
Equally, why pay £15 to waste a lot of time and stress when maybe you could pay £29 like MrsHJ for one that works smoothly and is staffed properly so they don't have a 2hr helpline queue?

And the salient point is that it is impossible to know what such a digital mismatch problem is because no detailed reason is given and therefore for an enduser digital incompetent (or anyone?) difficult to resolve.
That is the big negative with the over-reliance on digital.
It wastes so much valuable time.
You would have been equally stuffed if it had all been on paper and the border guards rejected your form for an invalid reference number. Possibly more so.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Andrew-l
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by Andrew-l »

mjr wrote: 6 Jan 2022, 5:05pm
delilah wrote: 6 Jan 2022, 4:51pm I would also like to re-visit Belgium for the excellent cycling. No ferry anymore to Zeebruge and its logistically difficult to travel from Manchester to Flanders.
Except for the virus-related requirements, it seems easier at first glance than the old Zeebrugge ferries from Felixstowe or Hull: one train to London Euston (still limited bike spaces but far more trains), a short transfer to nearby St Pancras International and then either Eurostar to Brussels (normally 9 a day) for south/east Flanders, or Southeastern to Dover (hourly trains, 6 bikes per train plus more at guard's discretion) for a ferry to Dunkirk (normally every 2 hours) and the recently-completed EuroVelo 4 section to De Panne for western Flanders and beyond (the weakest link is now the little bit out from the port to EV4).
Except that Eurostar are still not accepting bikes ...
https://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/travel-i ... gage/bikes

I wonder if they ever will again?
pal
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by pal »

MrsHJ wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 10:08am For those thinking about travelling but not wanting to commit Brittany’s ferries is currently offering fully flex fares for the same price as semi flex and only £10 more than fixed for cyclists. Airlines are also pretty flexible and I’d add the bikes on nearer to the travel date.

NB I did cycle last year in France/Switzerland and it was fine. I didn’t enjoy the tests and stuff (extra things to go wrong and a bit stressful but was doable).
DFDS have also extended their (very) flexible booking rules, on their channel routes as well as Newcastle-Amsterdam. (And at the moment have an early-bird booking discount offer on the NCL-AMS route: 20% off if you book before January 10th).

I share Andrew's worry about Eurostar and bikes: I wouldn't be very surprised if (unboxed) bikes are never allowed again :(
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by PDQ Mobile »

mjr wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 10:42am
PDQ Mobile wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 10:21am All I can say is that I chose an accredited tester from the Home Office webpage relevant to my location here.
Why pay £100 when you can pay £15?
Equally, why pay £15 to waste a lot of time and stress when maybe you could pay £29 like MrsHJ for one that works smoothly and is staffed properly so they don't have a 2hr helpline queue?

And the salient point is that it is impossible to know what such a digital mismatch problem is,
because no detailed reason is given and therefore for an enduser digital incompetent (or anyone?) difficult to resolve.
That is the big negative with the over-reliance on digital.
It wastes so much valuable time.
You would have been equally stuffed if it had all been on paper and the border guards rejected your form for an invalid reference number. Possibly more so.
On the first point I only chose after the P& O provider states "out of stock".
I repeat these are Home Office "accredited" testers, so one would not unreasonably expect them to work?
Or is your digital world so full of unreliability you always have to go to extra lengths to avoid problems?

And being poor ,I go for the one in my area that is the most reasonable- travelling is ever more expensive these days even without these additional costs.

You obviously go for a more expensive option but you still don't have a guarantee that it will work, do you?

That is the rub, you pay, get confirmation etc, and only right at the end of the whole tedious process find out some unidentifiable problem has occurred.
.......
On the second point paper is not available.
The API HAS to be filled in online.
Otherwise I would always chose paper, far superior IMV.
It would have not changed anything at Calais, the whole process was repeated anyway, but not by me.
......
I put my long sorry tale on here in case others fall into the same pitfall.
ChrisF
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by ChrisF »

jack1 wrote: 5 Jan 2022, 6:32pm 🤔 Europe 2022 🤔 I’m wondering if touring will happen this year.??? 🤔
Definately but by ship / campervan, not by train or plane for me.
Once your'e riding (in France or Spain or wherever) it's relatively easy to stay away from crowds, so the lieklihood of catching Covid is probably no different from being in the UK.
But if you get on a plane, you're going to spend maybe 2 hours or more close up to 100+ people, perhaps 10% of whom have Covid (since no testing is now required before boarding). Ok, they'll be wearing masks (although two local buses I went on the other day had people without) but it puts me off flying or going on a long train journey. And with reduced testing requirements, those planes and trains are going to be busier now (e.g. Easyjet just reported 300% increase in bookings for Lanzarote).
Maybe someone can allay my fears?
Chris F, Cornwall
simonhill
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by simonhill »

Chris: Some countries, eg Portugal require test before inbound flight. So that's half your problem solved.

Now the bad news.

Everyone talking about ferries, but the last few overnighters that I have caught, if you book a seat you are in a large room with lots of other people for much longer than any Europe flight. Also probably worse a/c. Are masks mandatory on ferries? They are on planes.

Personally I have often taken risks when travelling. Typhoons, earthquakes, malaria, rabies, poisonous snakes, dodgy transport, military coups, awful food, etc, etc. Travelling is a major part of my life and COVID is not going to stop me as long as I can do it in a relatively (to me) safe way. Some seem to want 100% safety, fair enough, but for me I'm happy to go a lot lower %age.
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MrsHJ
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by MrsHJ »

simonhill wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 1:36pm Chris: Some countries, eg Portugal require test before inbound flight. So that's half your problem solved.

Now the bad news.

Everyone talking about ferries, but the last few overnighters that I have caught, if you book a seat you are in a large room with lots of other people for much longer than any Europe flight. Also probably worse a/c. Are masks mandatory on ferries? They are on planes.

Personally I have often taken risks when travelling. Typhoons, earthquakes, malaria, rabies, poisonous snakes, dodgy transport, military coups, awful food, etc, etc. Travelling is a major part of my life and COVID is not going to stop me as long as I can do it in a relatively (to me) safe way. Some seem to want 100% safety, fair enough, but for me I'm happy to go a lot lower %age.
Daytime ferries have cheap cabins eg £30 for you to have a snooze and chill/avoid other peoples kids. Nighttime: I did all the cheap options when in my teens and twenties- now I’m too old to be interested in sleeping on a chair so I’m always going to get a cabin. NB my recent experiences are almost all on Brittany ferries due to where I live. However, I do understand what you mean on risk.
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horizon
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by horizon »

simonhill wrote: 7 Jan 2022, 1:36pm

Everyone talking about ferries, but the last few overnighters that I have caught, if you book a seat you are in a large room with lots of other people for much longer than any Europe flight. Also probably worse a/c.
I took cross channel ferries with my bike on two trips last year, DFDS and Brittany. I booked a seat on both (= 4 crossings) occasions. The "lounge" was practically empty on the Brittany, mostly on the DFDS. This gives you sleeping space on the floor and Brittany Ferries had a shower as well. Many seats (alternating) were taped off. Personally I wasn't worried about "infection" but the extra space was excellent for sleeping. I was cycle camping on both trips so had plenty in the way of a sleeping bag etc. The lack of people on the boat meant that my luggage was pretty safe too. I really couldn't see the advantage of paying for a cabin.
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Psamathe
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by Psamathe »

My approach, plan but expect to change plans. With the levels of virus around I'd be very surprised if there were not more variants between now and "European Touring Time" maybe based on Omicron but possible the next variant could be stem from Delta of some other variant. And when new variants arise there will be initial uncertainty (closed borders) followed by changing regs whilst people try and establish how well the then available vaccines impact the virus and if there are new vaccines going by then, what vaccination requirements might be needed where and when.

No reason not to plan as new variant might happen after tours or not cause the level of disruption. But at the same time flexibility and being ready for "plan B".

Ian
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MrsHJ
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Re: Europe 2022

Post by MrsHJ »

Yep, hope for the best, plan for the worst. I’m still feeling a little burnt after not getting to Norway for Xmas.

I’m going to book flex tickets today :) with Brittany ferries on the basis that I should be able to get to France for at least one trip this year. I’ll book for my most likely trip which is a fortnight holiday for the Velo Francette in late June. I’ll go Portsmouth to Caen for Le Velo Francette and back via roscoff as that’s closer to home.

Coming back to the other thread in the choices of how to travel although it’s only ten days or so of cycling the travel requires half a day to get to Portsmouth, overnight from there then set off next day in the cycle. For the return it’s a full day of trains from La Rochelle to Roscoff, cycle Morlaix to Roscoff, then the boat.

If I need to rearrange then so be it as there are a couple of other trips I’ve got listed as possibles- I’m quite taken with doing a week from Dijon to Epernay, possibly for a week in early May if I can’t get away in June and I’m holding Denmark as a trip if I’m pushed more into July (too hot for me in France then) for home/work reasons. I want to do that trip one day anyway.

My hope is to make Le Velo Francette the first leg of a 2 leg french trip this year. It finishes in La Rochelle and I’m thinking of going back there in September and riding to Beziers via the entre deux mers route (doing the Velo Francette kind of turns it into a 3 mers route). I’ve already done Beziers to Sete on another tour so I might finish off in the Passa Pais route- I’ll revise my plans as I go but that’s the current outline.

Links:
Le Velo Francette: https://cycle.travel/map/journey/279044
La Rochelle to Beziers part 1 to Toulouse: https://cycle.travel/map/journey/278570
la R to Beziers part 2 Passa P: https://cycle.travel/map/journey/278571
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