Europe 2022

[mjr]

I'm unsure if they still exist but my bank's Debit Card (Visa) used to work on a weird system where a transaction was still checked against your bank account but the amount was not debited from your account until the end of the month. It was not a credit card (your account would always have enough balance to pay the accumulated debit), there was no "loan" aspects, no option not to pay-off, no interest rate.

A guaranteed charge card, you mean? I've not heard of a non-business one of those for years.

[Psamathe]

I'm unsure if they still exist but my bank's Debit Card (Visa) used to work on a weird system where a transaction was still checked against your bank account but the amount was not debited from your account until the end of the month. It was not a credit card (your account would always have enough balance to pay the accumulated debit), there was no "loan" aspects, no option not to pay-off, no interest rate.

A guaranteed charge card, you mean? I've not heard of a non-business one of those for years.

Was not called that. It was a Visa Debit card on a personal current account at a bank.

Ian

[pete75]

but ... how does your economy work without limitless supplies of cheap credit?
Next you'll be telling us you only buy things when you can afford them. Can't you see from the superbly functioning economy of the UK how wrong you are

Credit cards do not provide cheap credit and they have a limit.

[Jdsk]

Update from Cycling UK:

"Guide to taking a bike on a ferry":
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/guide ... bike-ferry

Jonathan

[MrsHJ]

Update from Cycling UK:

"Guide to taking a bike on a ferry":
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/guide ... bike-ferry

Jonathan

I feel fairly confident on ferries- I was a bit puzzled by the comment that you are a foot passenger with a bike. As I mostly travel with Brittany ferries I’ve always travelled more as a vehicular passenger with my mode of transport being bike and have checked in with the cars. Has anything changed recently? (I last took the cross channel ferry about 5 years ago).

[pal]

Yes, that struck me as odd, and perhaps misleading, advice too: the much more common system, surely, is that you follow the same route as the cars, not the foot passengers? (With the slight variation at Dover that there's a specific cycling route through the port; and, for DFDS at least, a slightly different check-in place -- in the same hut as the lorry drivers.) My experience, in the UK and elsewhere in Europe, is that being treated as a foot passenger with a bike (rather than a vehicle passenger without a motor) is v. much the exception, not the rule.

[mattheus]

Did you actually read the article? It clearly explains what happens:

Passengers travelling with bicycles generally check in at the same time as other foot passengers. With car ferries, you'll usually be directed to queue in a dedicated lane where you will wait until directed to cycle up to the ferry ramp. Sometimes you may have to wait a while, and given it can be quite exposed you'll want to make sure you have the appropriate clothing to hand depending on the weather.

You will have to dismount from your bikes once you reach the vehicle ramp due to the risk of slipping off your bike on the wet metal, and then push your bicycle up the same vehicle ramp as that used by cars. Stewards will be on board to instruct cyclists where to leave and secure your bicycle.

[mjr]

Update from Cycling UK:

"Guide to taking a bike on a ferry":
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/guide ... bike-ferry

Double-check before use because I spotted "P&O Ferries: Accepts bicycles as part of a car booking for no additional charge on its routes between Dover and Calais, Hull to Rotterdam, Hull to Zeebrugge and Cairnryan in Scotland to Larne, Northern Ireland.[...] *Above information was accurate prior to P&O Ferries actions on 17 March 2022"

Hull to Zeebrugge stopped taking passengers at the start of 2021 so the above wasn't accurate in March 2022. "Former Hull to Zeebrugge ferries for sale after route closes" - BBC News – https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-56114654

[mattheus]

Update from Cycling UK:

"Guide to taking a bike on a ferry":
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/guide ... bike-ferry

Double-check before use because I spotted "P&O Ferries: Accepts bicycles as part of a car booking for no additional charge on its routes between Dover and Calais, Hull to Rotterdam, Hull to Zeebrugge and Cairnryan in Scotland to Larne, Northern Ireland.[...] *Above information was accurate prior to P&O Ferries actions on 17 March 2022 EDIT (for everyone's info): Please check P&O Ferries website for updates"

Hull to Zeebrugge stopped taking passengers at the start of 2021 so the above wasn't accurate in March 2022. "Former Hull to Zeebrugge ferries for sale after route closes" - BBC News – https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-56114654

Perhaps that is why the article says:
"Above information was accurate prior to P&O Ferries actions on 17 March 2022. Please check P&O Ferries website for updates"

Selectively quoting the CUK site isn't helpful to anyone.

[pal]

Did you actually read the article? It clearly explains what happens:

Passengers travelling with bicycles generally check in at the same time as other foot passengers. ....[/b]

I did read the article, yes (which is why I commented). It's this first sentence which seems to me potentially misleading, since it suggests that bicycle passengers follow the same rules as foot passengers (rather than, as the rest of the parag explains -- correctly, as you point out -- basically doing the same thing as those in motorised vehicles).

[mattheus]

Did you actually read the article? It clearly explains what happens:

Passengers travelling with bicycles generally check in at the same time as other foot passengers. ....[/b]

I did read the article, yes (which is why I commented). It's this first sentence which seems to me potentially misleading, since it suggests that bicycle passengers follow the same rules as foot passengers (rather than, as the rest of the parag explains -- correctly, as you point out -- basically doing the same thing as those in motorised vehicles).

Why wouldn't they read the rest of the paragraph??

And no, it's not really the same as the motor vehicles, is it? If you were used to driving onto a ferry, you'd have quite a few problems if you tried boarding exactly the same way on your bicycle. So the information provided seems very helpful to me.

There is some needless nit-picking going on here ...

[mjr]

Update from Cycling UK:

"Guide to taking a bike on a ferry":
https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/guide ... bike-ferry

Double-check before use because I spotted "P&O Ferries: Accepts bicycles as part of a car booking for no additional charge on its routes between Dover and Calais, Hull to Rotterdam, Hull to Zeebrugge and Cairnryan in Scotland to Larne, Northern Ireland.[...] *Above information was accurate prior to P&O Ferries actions on 17 March 2022 EDIT (for everyone's info): Please check P&O Ferries website for updates"

Hull to Zeebrugge stopped taking passengers at the start of 2021 so the above wasn't accurate in March 2022. "Former Hull to Zeebrugge ferries for sale after route closes" - BBC News – https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-56114654

Perhaps that is why the article says:
"Above information was accurate prior to P&O Ferries actions on 17 March 2022. Please check P&O Ferries website for updates"

Selectively quoting the CUK site isn't helpful to anyone.

That addition does not change that it was inaccurate prior to 17 March 2022. If the page cannot be relied upon and you have to check all operator websites anyway, then it does not add value and mainly clutters up search results, while also damaging the reputation of Cycling UK by showing them to be careless about, and out of touch with, touring.

I really do not understand why you defend simple mistakes like that.

[mattheus]

Double-check before use because I spotted "P&O Ferries: Accepts bicycles as part of a car booking for no additional charge on its routes between Dover and Calais, Hull to Rotterdam, Hull to Zeebrugge and Cairnryan in Scotland to Larne, Northern Ireland.[...] *Above information was accurate prior to P&O Ferries actions on 17 March 2022 EDIT (for everyone's info): Please check P&O Ferries website for updates"

Hull to Zeebrugge stopped taking passengers at the start of 2021 so the above wasn't accurate in March 2022. "Former Hull to Zeebrugge ferries for sale after route closes" - BBC News – https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-56114654

Perhaps that is why the article says:
"Above information was accurate prior to P&O Ferries actions on 17 March 2022. Please check P&O Ferries website for updates"

Selectively quoting the CUK site isn't helpful to anyone.

That addition does not change that it was inaccurate prior to 17 March 2022. If the page cannot be relied upon and you have to check all operator websites anyway, then it does not add value and mainly clutters up search results, while also damaging the reputation of Cycling UK by showing them to be careless about, and out of touch with, touring.

I really do not understand why you defend simple mistakes like that.

Because simple mistakes do happen, and it's really a very small error in the context; who wouldn't check the current situation with P&O, given their dispute has been on every major news channel for a week??

Do you really care about the "reputation of Cycling UK"? Are you inconvenienced by this occasionally inaccurate history of international ferry travel around the British Isles?

[st599_uk]

Perhaps that is why the article says:
"Above information was accurate prior to P&O Ferries actions on 17 March 2022. Please check P&O Ferries website for updates"

Selectively quoting the CUK site isn't helpful to anyone.

That addition does not change that it was inaccurate prior to 17 March 2022. If the page cannot be relied upon and you have to check all operator websites anyway, then it does not add value and mainly clutters up search results, while also damaging the reputation of Cycling UK by showing them to be careless about, and out of touch with, touring.

I really do not understand why you defend simple mistakes like that.

Because simple mistakes do happen, and it's really a very small error in the context; who wouldn't check the current situation with P&O, given their dispute has been on every major news channel for a week??

Do you really care about the "reputation of Cycling UK"? Are you inconvenienced by this occasionally inaccurate history of international ferry travel around the British Isles?

I think the problem is that the Hull - Zeebrugge ferry hasn't been running for a while (long before P&O's recent actions), so the document is a bit out of date.

[mjr]

That addition does not change that it was inaccurate prior to 17 March 2022. If the page cannot be relied upon and you have to check all operator websites anyway, then it does not add value and mainly clutters up search results, while also damaging the reputation of Cycling UK by showing them to be careless about, and out of touch with, touring.

I really do not understand why you defend simple mistakes like that.

Because simple mistakes do happen, and it's really a very small error in the context; who wouldn't check the current situation with P&O, given their dispute has been on every major news channel for a week??

Yeah, but that's just the P&O entry where I spotted the error because Hull is my second-nearest port and the loss of the Zeebrugge service is a nuisance discussed locally at the time. Who knows what other mistakes are in that document if something as basic as what routes exist is wrong? I disagree that listing a non-existant route is "really a very small error in the context".

Do you really care about the "reputation of Cycling UK"?

Yes. A good Cycling UK would make various aspects of my volunteering much easier, and probably also my leisure. For example, if they have a good summary of ferry details, I won't have to spend time search operator websites for them...

Are you inconvenienced by this occasionally inaccurate history of international ferry travel around the British Isles?

I haven't been, but I do care about other cyclists and them not wasting time looking for non-existant useful ferry routes because of mistaken information from a national cycling organisation that blooming well ought to know better.

Also, I've read that there are still scammy websites offering to sell tickets for Hull-Zeebrugge, including one I've seen that claims "sailings regularly sell out at busy periods". Some of those sites will even sell you a "booking" and then make contact to say the crossing has been cancelled (no <i>[inappropriate word removed]</i> - cancelled 1 Jan 2021!) but for a small amendment fee you can book on another route for the same (higher than direct) price.

I care that other cyclists aren't helped into the hands of such scammers.