Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
Thanks for the updates. In the interests of prevention rather than prosecutions, I hope this gets as much publicity as the earlier loophole cases. Talking of loopholes, even more verbiage has been added.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/81/made1.—(1) These Regulations may be cited as the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2022 and come into force on 25th March 2022.
(2) These Regulations extend to England and Wales and Scotland.
Amendment of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
2. The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986(2) are amended as follows.
3.—(1) In regulation 110 (mobile telephones)—
(a)in paragraph (4), from “performs” to the end, substitute “is capable of transmitting and receiving data, whether or not those capabilities are enabled.”;
(b)after paragraph (5A), insert—
“(5B) A person does not contravene a provision of this regulation, if at the time of the alleged contravention—
(a)that person is using the mobile telephone or other device to make a contactless payment;
(b)for a good or service which is received at the same time as, or after, the contactless payment is made; and
(c)the motor vehicle is stationary.”;
(c)in paragraph (6)(a), from “during the course of” to the end, substitute “while being used.”;
(d)for paragraph (6)(c), substitute—
“(c)in paragraphs (1) to (3) the word “using” includes the following—
(i)illuminating the screen;
(ii)checking the time;
(iii)checking notifications;
(iv)unlocking the device;
(v)making, receiving, or rejecting a telephone or internet based call;
(vi)sending, receiving or uploading oral or written content;
(vii)sending, receiving or uploading a photo or video;
(viii)utilising camera, video, or sound recording functionality;
(ix)drafting any text;
(x)accessing any stored data such as documents, books, audio files, photos, videos, films, playlists, notes or messages;
(xi)accessing an application;
(xii)accessing the internet.”.
(2) After paragraph (6)(e) insert—
“(f)“contactless payment” means a payment made at a contactless payment terminal using the contactless payment facility of a card, mobile telephone or other device;
(g)“an application” means a software programme that runs through a web browser or offline on a mobile telephone or other device.”.
Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
Thanks for posting that.Stevek76 wrote: ↑2 Feb 2022, 11:01pm Amendment here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/81/made
In force 25th march.
Reminds me of the big revision that was needed after the initial legislation on driving and testing for alcohol.
Jonathan
PS: It still seems inadequate on the effects of distraction.
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
My memory is that most of the problems with the breathalyser were resolved by the House of Lords dismissing spurious defences. If I had to find an earlier example of verbiage it would be the rambling lists in 19C statutes. The harm to be tackled here is drivers being distracted by faffing with technology and imo and that's what the con & use regulations should tackle and as briefly as possible, rather than more of the same for argument further down the line.Jdsk wrote: ↑3 Feb 2022, 9:09amThanks for posting that.Stevek76 wrote: ↑2 Feb 2022, 11:01pm Amendment here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/81/made
In force 25th march.
Reminds me of the big revision that was needed after the initial legislation on driving and testing for alcohol.
Jonathan
PS: I'm surprised by the exemption of contactless payments. It still seems inadequate on the effects of distraction.
The Barreto case, which decided that using a phone as a camera was not covered by the reg which is now being amended was decided in 2019 following an incident in 2017. ie To legislate against something so clear cut as this to the layman, we've lost some five years penning waffle, which may still be vulnerable to the next advance in IT.
Incidentally, here's the Barreto judgment. As a society, with the backlog of serious criminal cases now being measured in years, I don't think we can afford to have some of the best-educated people in the land arguing the toss like that. And then expecting the police to keep up.
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ad ... /2044.html
(I presume contactless payment is for parking and tolls)
Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
I think that the wording of the exemption would also cover drive-through food outlets.
Jonathan
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
Con & use reg 110 which covers mobile phones and is the subject of this amendment begins
ie They've chosen not to include anything about "or other public place" or similar. There's plenty of scope for the learned friends to earn an honest guinea or several discussing whether a drive-thru KFC is a road, but I'd be more certain of a parking bay or toll booth. Either way, all sight of the jungle has been lost110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using ... (my emphasis.)
Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
Doesn't road always include that accessible by the public meaning without it needing to be explicit in every instance?thirdcrank wrote: ↑3 Feb 2022, 11:04am Con & use reg 110 which covers mobile phones and is the subject of this amendment begins
ie They've chosen not to include anything about "or other public place" or similar. There's plenty of scope for the learned friends to earn an honest guinea or several discussing whether a drive-thru KFC is a road, but I'd be more certain of a parking bay or toll booth. Either way, all sight of the jungle has been lost110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using ... (my emphasis.)
Thanks
Jonathan
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
AIUI, every "on a road" case is a question of fact on its own circumstances, with some being easier to determine than others.
Even within the Road Traffic Act, the location of offences varies between sections.
So, the "bad driving" offences and drink/drugs offence have
Even within the Road Traffic Act, the location of offences varies between sections.
So, the "bad driving" offences and drink/drugs offence have
Racing in motor vehicles ison a road or other public place
Police directions to pedestrians apply toon a public way
And I cannot claim that is exhaustive. All it shows is that I have a pretty good idea from memory of some of the differences and I know how to dig it out online. It tends to demonstrate what I'm trying to say, in that what we want is better driving and a readily understandable way of getting it. We don't need a pedantry corner for the likes of me with time to spare and even less a work creation scheme for the clever people in our society.... in (sic) a road, a person on foot who proceeds across or along the carriageway in contravention of a direction to stop given by the constable ... (My emphasis)
Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
I think what CyclingMikey is doing is fantastic and I do wish that he spent more time catching drivers who dangerously overtake literally inches apart. I have nearly been hit so many times by such inpatient and careless drivers.
I noticed that CyclingMikey recently posted a video in Jan 2022 where he ignored a motorcycle going the wrong side of the road at gandalf corner. People were not too impressed with his justifications for this - that cars are more risky so other law breaking road users can be let off. I tried to find the video but he now seems to have deleted it. Not surprised he did with the disagreement it caused. Personally, I feel that all wheeled road users whether electric scooters, motorcycle, car or bike should use the road with consideration for others
I noticed that CyclingMikey recently posted a video in Jan 2022 where he ignored a motorcycle going the wrong side of the road at gandalf corner. People were not too impressed with his justifications for this - that cars are more risky so other law breaking road users can be let off. I tried to find the video but he now seems to have deleted it. Not surprised he did with the disagreement it caused. Personally, I feel that all wheeled road users whether electric scooters, motorcycle, car or bike should use the road with consideration for others
Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
He's right that motorcycles going the wrong way are less of a hazard, but also consider that he cannot block them. A motorcyclist can just go around him. A driver in a 2 metre wide vehicle cannot. He could report them, but he spends enough time reporting drivers and uploading video as a volunteer. There are plenty of other road users, including drivers, that he doesn't report. He generally reports the ones he feels present the biggest risk & are the mostly likely to be successfully prosecuted.ItachiX wrote: ↑10 Feb 2022, 6:55pm I think what CyclingMikey is doing is fantastic and I do wish that he spent more time catching drivers who dangerously overtake literally inches apart. I have nearly been hit so many times by such inpatient and careless drivers.
I noticed that CyclingMikey recently posted a video in Jan 2022 where he ignored a motorcycle going the wrong side of the road at gandalf corner. People were not too impressed with his justifications for this - that cars are more risky so other law breaking road users can be let off. I tried to find the video but he now seems to have deleted it. Not surprised he did with the disagreement it caused. Personally, I feel that all wheeled road users whether electric scooters, motorcycle, car or bike should use the road with consideration for others
Since he does this in his spare time, I think it is entirely reasonable that he set some criteria for what he spends time on & or not. IMO, the thing to do, if you want more drivers prosecuted there is to campaign to have a permanent camera installed.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
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Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
That's right, but if somebody goes beyond that and routinely posts on social media then they are inviting criticism.Since he does this in his spare time, I think it is entirely reasonable that he set some criteria for what he spends time on & or not.
Re: Mike van Erp, great cyclist or grass?
You could consider doing what CyclingMikey does, maybe once a month, if a lot of Cyclists did this, possibly it would make motorists more careful. Of course it could turn the situation Toxic, and provoke motorists.
My hero! - Cycling Mikey
I daresay you all know about him. Here's one of his many videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr3AmCuusjM
His approach to confrontation should be part of some assertiveness training course. £50,000 in fines as at November 2020, that's going some.
I wouldn't have the nerve to do what he does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr3AmCuusjM
His approach to confrontation should be part of some assertiveness training course. £50,000 in fines as at November 2020, that's going some.
I wouldn't have the nerve to do what he does.
Re: My hero! - Cycling Mikey
My views changed and I'm now a fan.
Existing thread:
[topics merged by moderator]
Jonathan
Existing thread:
[topics merged by moderator]
Jonathan