SPDs = cold feet in winter?

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Jdsk
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by Jdsk »

Hellhound wrote: 10 Jan 2022, 10:59am I remove my shoes insole then use it as a template and cut out 3 or 4 pieces of tin-foil.I place the tin-foil between the insole and sole of my shoes.Done it for years,seems to work fine for me.At the very least it's cheap to try before buying anything else.
Why metal foil, please?

I'd expect that to act as a conductor rather than an insulator.

Thanks

Jonathan
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RickH
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by RickH »

Jamesh wrote: 10 Jan 2022, 8:33am
NATURAL ANKLING wrote: 10 Jan 2022, 12:19am Hi,
If you insulate your lower legs your feet will stay warmer.
Windchill is always big killer, so ideally windproof insulating lower leg warmers.
I have been given some 3/4 length thermal tights I cannot see the point of them. First class tacket to cold feet imho!
I wear 3/4 thermal ib tight probably more than an other cycling bottoms! They keep my knees warm in cooler temperatures, down to 5 or 6 degrees - below which I will generally wear longs. Although leg warmers & 3/4 worked well for this morning's chilly ride to the train.

To the OP, I've found Shimano winter boots (currently MV81s - goretex waterproof & insulated - bought NOS from my local bike shop) work well, supplemented by gaiters & long socks, plus knee warmers under thermal tights once the temperature gets well below freezing.
Former member of the Cult of the Polystyrene Head Carbuncle.
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Hellhound
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by Hellhound »

Jdsk wrote: 10 Jan 2022, 2:54pm
Hellhound wrote: 10 Jan 2022, 10:59am I remove my shoes insole then use it as a template and cut out 3 or 4 pieces of tin-foil.I place the tin-foil between the insole and sole of my shoes.Done it for years,seems to work fine for me.At the very least it's cheap to try before buying anything else.
Why metal foil, please?
I'd expect that to act as a conductor rather than an insulator.
Thanks
Jonathan
Foil blankets seem to work well for hyperthermia :wink: I believe rescue crews use them?
Old motor bike trick.Stops you from losing heat through the soles,works especially well with shoes with holes in the bottom :wink:
NickJP
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by NickJP »

I have a pair of Shimano SPD winter boots that I use when the temperatures drop below freezing. They have a fleece lining on both the insole and upper, a neoprene collar that comes up above the ankle, and do a good job of keeping my feet warm in sub-zero (Celcius) temperatures. I bought them several years ago, but I think they're still available: https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/ ... MW500.html.

I believe they also make pretty much the same shoe but with a road sole for three-bolt cleats.

Another way to help prevent your hands and feet getting cold in winter is to have good head covering. The brain considers itself the most important organ in the body, and if it thinks it's getting cold, it will decrese peripheral circulation so that it can do a better job of keeping itself warm, which will lead to hands and feet getting cold.
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fausto99
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by fausto99 »

NickJP wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 1:22am I have a pair of Shimano SPD winter boots that I use when the temperatures drop below freezing.
Yes, it's the Shimano boots I have with an ankle cuff. They are good but not warm enough for me even though I warm them up near a radiator for 1/2 hour before I go out. I still need two pairs of socks, overshoes and foot warmer packs. Must be my Italian ancestry. I have tried Sealskin socks but found them useless. Anyone want to try them? You can have mine for the price of the postage. PM me.
I've seen some neoprene overshoes that go all the way up to your knees - might be worth a try; they are expensive though and I tend to ride in the garage when it gets to zero or below.
mattheus
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by mattheus »

jb wrote: 9 Jan 2022, 10:42pm The heat transfer to the pedal can only be via two small points of contact so I wouldn't think it would be a big heat sink.
Yes, it must be a tiny amount of heat transfer.

I think this is a popular cycling urban myth - I've never seen anybody work out the maximum possible heat loss through such a tiny area of metal. The figures are available for the material, and there are plenty of engineering/physics savvy cyclists on the internet, why has no-one worked it out yet? So I call MYTH!

(The reason I won't bother doing the calculation is that the ball of my foot is never the cold part. And there is loads of insulation over your cleats.)
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by mattheus »

Hellhound wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 12:00am
Jdsk wrote: 10 Jan 2022, 2:54pm
Hellhound wrote: 10 Jan 2022, 10:59am I remove my shoes insole then use it as a template and cut out 3 or 4 pieces of tin-foil.I place the tin-foil between the insole and sole of my shoes.Done it for years,seems to work fine for me.At the very least it's cheap to try before buying anything else.
Why metal foil, please?
I'd expect that to act as a conductor rather than an insulator.
Thanks
Jonathan
Foil blankets seem to work well for hyperthermia :wink: I believe rescue crews use them?
Old motor bike trick.Stops you from losing heat through the soles,works especially well with shoes with holes in the bottom :wink:
A very quick google says that foil blankets are a PLASTIC sheet, covered with thin metallic layer.

So I'm guessing the plastic is a poor conductor, and the metal reflects back a decent amount of radiated body heat to the victim/injured_body. Might work less well as an insole than an emergency blanket? But again, just guessing. I have certainly seen a foil layer in a winter shoe at least once.
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horizon
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by horizon »

fausto99 wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 8:46am
NickJP wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 1:22am I have a pair of Shimano SPD winter boots that I use when the temperatures drop below freezing.
I have tried Sealskin socks but found them useless. Anyone want to try them? You can have mine for the price of the postage. PM me.
Yes please! (If they are the large size)
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Jdsk
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by Jdsk »

mattheus wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 10:12am
Hellhound wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 12:00am
Jdsk wrote: 10 Jan 2022, 2:54pm Why metal foil, please?
I'd expect that to act as a conductor rather than an insulator.
Foil blankets seem to work well for hyperthermia ... I believe rescue crews use them?
Old motor bike trick.Stops you from losing heat through the soles,works especially well with shoes with holes in the bottom
A very quick google says that foil blankets are a PLASTIC sheet, covered with thin metallic layer.

So I'm guessing the plastic is a poor conductor, and the metal reflects back a decent amount of radiated body heat to the victim/injured_body. Might work less well as an insole than an emergency blanket? But again, just guessing. I have certainly seen a foil layer in a winter shoe at least once.
That's hypothermia, not hyperthermia.

Space blankets were designed to shield from solar radiation.

They're used in emergency situations because they're small and light and cheap. They might reflect some body heat but their major effect is in trapping a layer of air between the body and the blanket and thus reducing loss of heat through conduction and convection and evaporation.

When compressed between a sock and a shoe there isn't going to be much air there so that effect won't apply.

I'd expect a layer of solid polymer with the same dimensions to conduct less heat than metal foil, and a layer of polymer foam to conduct much less.

But there's no need to rely on theory. It would be easy to run a comparative trial. And possible to do it single-blinded and randomised... especially as most of us are conveniently issued with two feet...

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by Jdsk »

NickJP wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 1:22amAnother way to help prevent your hands and feet getting cold in winter is to have good head covering. The brain considers itself the most important organ in the body, and if it thinks it's getting cold, it will decrese peripheral circulation so that it can do a better job of keeping itself warm, which will lead to hands and feet getting cold.
Yes and no. : - )

Thermoregulation by control of peripheral circulation is very important in humans.

And the effect is mediated by the brain but the sensors are elsewhere. So keeping other parts warm can avoid it. That includes the head.

Jonathan
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freiston
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by freiston »

Jdsk wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 1:58pm
mattheus wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 10:12am
Hellhound wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 12:00am
Foil blankets seem to work well for hyperthermia ... I believe rescue crews use them?
Old motor bike trick.Stops you from losing heat through the soles,works especially well with shoes with holes in the bottom
A very quick google says that foil blankets are a PLASTIC sheet, covered with thin metallic layer.

So I'm guessing the plastic is a poor conductor, and the metal reflects back a decent amount of radiated body heat to the victim/injured_body. Might work less well as an insole than an emergency blanket? But again, just guessing. I have certainly seen a foil layer in a winter shoe at least once.
That's hypothermia, not hyperthermia.

Space blankets were designed to shield from solar radiation.

They're used in emergency situations because they're small and light and cheap. They might reflect some body heat but their major effect is in trapping a layer of air between the body and the blanket and thus reducing loss of heat through conduction and convection and evaporation.

When compressed between a sock and a shoe there isn't going to be much air there so that effect won't apply.

I'd expect a layer of solid polymer with the same dimensions to conduct less heat than metal foil, and a layer of polymer foam to conduct much less.

But there's no need to rely on theory. It would be easy to run a comparative trial. And possible to do it single-blinded and randomised... especially as most of us are conveniently issued with two feet...

Jonathan
That was my thinking on reading about tinfoil in the shoe too. I sometimes over-do it when I go out in the cold weather (I dress for the first two miles rather than the following ten) and I reckon I'm in more danger of suffering hyperthermia than I am hypothermia :wink:
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
Jdsk
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by Jdsk »

freiston wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 2:20pmI sometimes over-do it when I go out in the cold weather (I dress for the first two miles rather than the following ten) and I reckon I'm in more danger of suffering hyperthermia than I am hypothermia
: - )

There are some interesting comments upthread about setting off and being confident that the exertion is going to warm you.

Jonathan
mattheus
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by mattheus »

Jdsk wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 1:58pm That's hypothermia, not hyperthermia.
It's january.

The thread is called COLD feet in WINTER.

I think everyone else knew what he meant.
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horizon
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by horizon »

Hellhound wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 2:05pm
Jdsk wrote: 11 Jan 2022, 1:58pm That's hypothermia, not hyperthermia.
Do you specifically go out of your way to be annoying or does it just come naturally?
It probably comes naturally and it might be irritating to others but . . .
I might have said this before but maybe you need to get out more.Almost 13000 posts in 3 years?Speaks volumes :roll:
I think this is unkind and unnecessary. Personally I value Jdsk's (many) posts and although I often disagree with him (I usually take your side on many issues actually :wink: ) I think it is great that he posts so often and does question things.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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Sweep
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Re: SPDs = cold feet in winter?

Post by Sweep »

Kind of associated - does anyone have any foolproof ways of stopping water and mositure coming through the bottom of an SPD-shod sole? I may start re-using some old Shimano SPD boots soon. Whenever I've walked across wet grassy fields in SPD footwear, often in search of a freecamping spot, I've ended up getting my feet wet through sole leakage.

Is duct tape good enough or is something more throrough, possibly multi-layered needed?

Apologies if an ignorant question - would rather avoid serial experiments/failures
Sweep
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