Various q's - deraileur hanger & cable replace / disc brake pads / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
jimster99
Posts: 210
Joined: 18 Jun 2012, 7:00pm

Various q's - deraileur hanger & cable replace / disc brake pads / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by jimster99 »

Hi all,

After my front bike wheel got stolen last week (as per my other post) I have gone a bit mad and picked up several super cheap bikes on facebook marketplace. And by super cheap, I mean the cheapest was £2. They do need a "little" TLC, which is a problem because I know very little about TLC'ing bikes and would therefore appreciate some help.

PS You may ask what is the plan? Well, the plan is that I'll use these bikes for short trips and if (when) they get stolen, I'll just pick up another 11 almost-free bikes on facebook ... and life will be good! And last week, I had one bike. Since the bike wheel for that bike got stolen, I have bought another 4 by accident :D

So, the issues (& photos below):

Question 1: One of the bikes is missing its front derailleur (which is a surprisingly hard word to spell!). How do I replace this? Having googled there seem to be two main ways of attaching it to the frame - can I use either type? The handlebar has a rotary type gear shift that goes around the handlebar (missing the cable but the shift itself seems alright) so I presume I just need the cable, cable housing, and the derailleur itself. Can I just get any cheapo one? Or does it need to match the shifter? How do I tell if I need to replace the shifter?

Question 2: The handlebars are a bit rusty. Can I just use a dremel steel wheel on this and then leave it? I guess so? Or sandpaper (since it's just surface rust)?

Question 3: The rear wheel plastic disc thing is a bit mashed up. Does this need replacmement? Or can I just leave it (it's not jamming the wheel in any way). If it needs replacement, how do I do this - take the cogs off? And do bike shops sell the plastic disc thing? What's it even called?

Question 4: Bake pads - replace? Or sand? I'm planning to replace the brake pads on my bike front wheel (the one that got stolen :( ) but I am curious if the current pads are OK - they have a lot of depth left on the pad itself, but they squeal a lot and dont work very well. I believe since I'm installing a new disc rotor I should also get new pads (or is it less of a risk to try out the old pads given I can just clean the rotor with brake cleaner)? Anyway, photos are below please let me know whether you think I can test the old pads out of if they look ruined. I am going to sandpaper them!

ISSUE 1: Missing front derailleur:
1642093415599.JPEG
1642093408970.JPEG
ISSUE 2: Rusty handlebars
1642093416752.JPEG
ISSUE 3: Mashed up plastic thing on rear wheel
1642093410736.JPEG
1642093413778.JPEG
Last edited by jimster99 on 21 May 2022, 1:17am, edited 5 times in total.
jimster99
Posts: 210
Joined: 18 Jun 2012, 7:00pm

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / how to replace plastic bit on rear wheel

Post by jimster99 »

ISSUE 4: Disc pad - renew? Or sandpaper?
1642093417642.JPEG
1642093419405.JPEG
attachment=2]1642093422651.JPEG[/attachment]
1642093424721.JPEG
1642093426351.JPEG
Attachments
1642093422651.JPEG
DevonDamo
Posts: 1035
Joined: 24 May 2011, 1:42am

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by DevonDamo »

1. The main two derailleur mounting systems are (1) a clamp that goes round the seat tube, or (2) a 'direct mount' fitted to the seat tube, i.e. a permanent threaded fitting on the bike, which the derailleur can be bolted to. There are other types, but that photo suggests you've got (1). Search on eBay for 'front derailleur clamp' and you'll find loads of the right sort. Then you've got to make sure they fit the diameter of your seat post and the height of your two chainrings. Ideally, go to a bike shop or a bike repair place so they can find something that fits.

2. Yes, sand it off or use a chemical rust remover, or just polish it out with metal polish and a power tool. So long as it's just surface rust, you're okay, although your chrome will be left with acne, and the rust is likely to come back reasonably quickly.

3. Take the plastic thing off your rear wheel. Search eBay for 'spoke guard' or 'spoke protector' if you want to replace it. You don't have to replace it. It's job is to protect your spokes from getting chewed up if your chain comes off on the inner side of the cassette, but you can also achieve this by adjusting the low 'limit screw' in the rear derailleur. (As with all this stuff - search on YouTube and you'll find tutorials telling you how to do it.)

4. Buy a can of 'brake cleaner' spray. Thoroughly soak the pads with it and wipe off with some kitchen towel. Then try the pads out. As you've put on a new rotor, you will need to bed the pads in, e.g. by braking continuously all the way down half a mile's worth of steep hills. After this, if they're still dangerously weak when you first start riding the bike, then they're probably contaminated and need replacing. (Contaminated pads will eventually regain their grip when they're heated up by heavy use, so you need to do this test in the morning when it's all cold.)
jimster99
Posts: 210
Joined: 18 Jun 2012, 7:00pm

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by jimster99 »

Hi all,

I'm slowly repairing my stockpile of recently-acquired facebook marketplace specials. I'm currently working on the kids bike which I bought for £2 (yes! £2! :D ). My son is 6 and currently riding a single gear bike with wide MTB tyres and he finds it too tiring to go more than about 20 minutes. The new one has gears, hybrid tyres and is much a nicer bike, but needs some minor tidying up.

I discovered today that the dropout on the rear derailleur is snapped (the bit that attaches the rear derailleur to the frame has snapped right at the mounting point). I didn't notice this until I took the rear wheel off, and the derailleur just fell off into my hands. It was shifting fine with the wheel on but I presume it would at some point have detached and caused an issue. Thank heavens I didn't let me son try riding it!! :shock:

Anyway, i need to find a replacement. It's an SRAM X4 derailleur (like this one: https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-p ... 88170.html). Can I just unscrew the old dropout and put this one on? I found two similar looking items from Decathlon (£3!) and Halfords (£10!).

Decathlon: https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/derailleu ... mc=8329146
Halfords: https://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-p ... 59023.html

Any hints - are they the same? (And I will overlook that these cost between 100% and 300% of the bike itself) :)

The derailleur itself looks fine and does shift, so I dont tihnk there's any other damage, but I'll give it an extensive test ride before I let me son near it. Cue the comedy photos of a 40 year old man riding a tiny kids bike to the shops and back :)

Thanks!!

PS I have fallen in love with refurbing old bikes in the last few weeks. I have no idea what I'm doing but it's so relaxing and so much fun compared to my entirely document-based real life job and I'm learning fast. This site is so much help - I appreciate the fine folk who populate it's friendly pages. :)
rjb
Posts: 7183
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by rjb »

The surface rust on the handlebars. Use wire wool or a brass brush attachment in your drill then polish. Sandpaper will scratch the bars making them prone to rusting later.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
Steve O'C
Posts: 165
Joined: 3 Mar 2013, 1:32pm

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by Steve O'C »

Hi
I discovered today that the dropout on the rear derailleur is snapped (the bit that attaches the rear derailleur to the frame has snapped right at the mounting point)
I assume you are describing the rear mech hangar. That bit is designed to break if the derailleur comes under any stress so saving the derailleur itself or the frame. So the good news as you have discovered is that they are available as spare parts relatively cheaply.

The bad news is there are lots of different designs and they are not usually interchangeable. On a cheap bike there is a good chance it will be one like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bicycle-Derail ... 3X4J&psc=1

Post a picture of the 2 bits of the broken part and I suspect someone here will be able to point you in the right direction.

Steve
jimster99
Posts: 210
Joined: 18 Jun 2012, 7:00pm

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by jimster99 »

Steve O'C wrote: 29 Jan 2022, 1:23pmPost a picture of the 2 bits of the broken part and I suspect someone here will be able to point you in the right direction.

Steve
Thanks so much Steve - that link for the rear mech hanger on amazon looks VERY similar to the actual one on the bike, so I am hopeful! I attach a couple of pictures of the broken part below. I also found that Decathlon sell something that looks very similar, could that be the same part? https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/derailleu ... mc=8329146
1647962407945.JPEG
1647962406097.JPEG
1647962403991.JPEG

Annoyingly I also noticed that when the rear mech hanger was snapped off, the chainstays have also been twisted slightly (presumably the previous owner fell off, snapped the hanger and twisted the frame) so I might have to try bending it back into shape and if that doesn't work I assume the bike will be a write off (shame as the bike itself has reasonably nice parts on it). I tried to take a photo below - hard as the bike is at the bottom of a pile of things in a cupboard, so it's low quality but perhaps it shows the issue!
1647962402764.JPEG
Steve O'C
Posts: 165
Joined: 3 Mar 2013, 1:32pm

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by Steve O'C »

I think the Decathlon part would work.

However the rear dropouts have obviously been bent out of shape which will have required quite a lot of force. I suspect that the rear derailleur will not have survived that unscathed and is also probably bent out of shape. If the frame is twisted then realistically it is not worth repairing. You can check frame alignment with string and a ruler like this

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Assuming the alignment is OK you could:
1. Buy a new gear hanger at Decathlon
2. Try and straighten the rear dropouts with a large adjustable spanner
3. Bolt the existing parts back together and see if you can get it to work satisfactorily

I am sure there are many here that could repair this sort of damage but I am not one of them and I think you would be lucky if you could get it to work OK. Its not worth spending more money on getting tools to realign the frame so it might be better to scrap that frame, remove the pats that are OK and transplant them to one of your other frames.

Good luck!
jimster99
Posts: 210
Joined: 18 Jun 2012, 7:00pm

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by jimster99 »

Thanks Steve! I may write this one off (or I may have a crack at bending the chainstays back into shape using the Sheldon Brown technique and measuring it with string to check the alignment, don't think it'll work out but you never know!).

The derailleur did seem to work fine before the hanger fell off, so it's possible it survived (or at least without severe damage).
jimster99
Posts: 210
Joined: 18 Jun 2012, 7:00pm

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by jimster99 »

I'm replacing the worn out bottom bracket on my "dutch style" bike (which turns out to be a cheapo Apollo Cafe). Halfords sold me a sealed cartridge which they claim is a replacement, but I've taken out the original bracket and it was unsealed (cue ball bearings flying everywhere in the dark). The new and old units do appear to be the same length and width so am I safe to assume they are interchangeable? Anything I should watch out for doing this switch? And do I need to remove the "drive side" cap (not sure of terminology) which is still stuck on the drive side of the tube that the bottom bracket fits into? Thanks!

The new and old bottom bracket side by side
bottom bracket.JPEG
richardfm
Posts: 963
Joined: 15 Apr 2018, 3:17pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by richardfm »

jimster99 wrote: 20 Apr 2022, 10:17pm I'm replacing the worn out bottom bracket on my "dutch style" bike (which turns out to be a cheapo Apollo Cafe). Halfords sold me a sealed cartridge which they claim is a replacement, but I've taken out the original bracket and it was unsealed (cue ball bearings flying everywhere in the dark). The new and old units do appear to be the same length and width so am I safe to assume they are interchangeable? Anything I should watch out for doing this switch? And do I need to remove the "drive side" cap (not sure of terminology) which is still stuck on the drive side of the tube that the bottom bracket fits into? Thanks!

The new and old bottom bracket side by side

bottom bracket.JPEG
Yes, you do need to remove the drive side bearing cup and remember it is a left hand thread.
Your replacement will work better if it is the same length and has the same amount of axle protruding on the drive side. It also needs to be made for the same width bottom bracket shell.
Have a look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUtOeFJJycg
Richard M
Cardiff
Steve O'C
Posts: 165
Joined: 3 Mar 2013, 1:32pm

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by Steve O'C »

And do I need to remove the "drive side" cap (not sure of terminology) which is still stuck on the drive side of the tube that the bottom bracket fits into? Thanks!
Yes you do (it is usually called the fixed cup) and it will be difficult!

Discussion here about peoples favorite methods

viewtopic.php?p=1684879#p1684879

Good luck!
jimster99
Posts: 210
Joined: 18 Jun 2012, 7:00pm

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by jimster99 »

Thanks Steve and Richardm! I'd watched the parktool video on a threaded cartridge bottom bracket (which is what I'm installing) and the one that's being removed is a cup-and-cone system, so I've also now watched their video for that. I can now see I will need a 36mm flat wrench (whcih I don't have) but I'll see if a pipe wrench can be used.

PS I also made the mistake of "removing" the cranks (or trying to....) without undoing the crank bolts...I stripped the threads (on both sides) with the crank puller tool before I realised why they weren't coming off. Luckily I had a small creme brulee torch and a hammer so heat and hammering allowed me to get them off pretty fast (and I don't think I'll ever change the bottom bracket on this bike again so I'm just going to screw them back on and keep my fingers crossed they never need come off again) :)
jimster99
Posts: 210
Joined: 18 Jun 2012, 7:00pm

Re: Replacing deraileur & cable / do my disc brake pads need replacing / plastic bit on rear wheel / more rust!! :D

Post by jimster99 »

So I've been wrestling with the drive side cup for about half an hour, and finally got it off with an adjustable pipe wrench - the trickiest bit was keeping it in place and then applying enough torque, but once I had it figured out, the cup came straight off.

Any views on whether threadlocker is really required for the replacement bottom bracket? The Halfords video says grease is fine, and I have grease (white lithium and copper grease) but no threadlock, although I could go get some if it's really useful. However, this is an old bike and I can't see myself ever changing the bottom bracket again. So probably grease will do. :)
Post Reply