New chain -with or without grease?
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
I think comparing MickF's chain cleaning and maintenance regime to a normal person's one is (certainly in my case) chalk and cheese. Mick proudly proclaims the lengths he goes to to have his chains cleaner than my fresh underpants. Anything other than his own clean and lube will always fall short.
I'm not knocking Mick's efforts, each to their own and he puts a lot of time and effort into maintaining his bikes. However, my standards are far lower and a few hundred lubing free kms with factory grease is welcomed. Even when it wears a bit, I only lightly clean with a rag and then apply my dry lube. Heresy in some circles.
I'm not knocking Mick's efforts, each to their own and he puts a lot of time and effort into maintaining his bikes. However, my standards are far lower and a few hundred lubing free kms with factory grease is welcomed. Even when it wears a bit, I only lightly clean with a rag and then apply my dry lube. Heresy in some circles.
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
May be less that the grease is anything special and more that it's thoroughly covering all the innards. Might be that kmc's recommendations are as they are as they expect that very few who fully degrease will do a proper job of relubing after.
The contents of this post, unless otherwise stated, are opinions of the author and may actually be complete codswallop
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
Two previous threads on the subject:
2013 - viewtopic.php?t=73092
2019 - viewtopic.php?t=128830
A chain lubricant needs to:
a. lubricate the chain to minimise friction and resulting energy losses.
b. minimise the metal on metal contact that causes chain stretch
c. prevent corrosion
As I understand it from my memory of reading Brucey's posts on this subject:
- to achieve the best results for the latter two the lubricant needs extreme pressure additives and anti-corrosion additives.
- typical extreme pressure additives would be molybdenum disulphide, graphite or PTFE powder
I think if there were molybdenum disulphide or graphite in the factory applied grease on chains, it would be dark/black, and I suspect that there may be no EP additives in the grease, because its 'dirty' appearance would undermine sales of the expensive gold and silver colour chains. Finish Line Wet Lube however does contain EP additives according to the manufacturer's website, although exactly which additives is not stated. Finish Line Wet was the lubricant used in the second thread linked to above, although note Bucey's comments in that thread about how very important chain cleanliness is.
The question regarding leaving or strippng the factory grease boils down to whether you have something better with which to replace it.
2013 - viewtopic.php?t=73092
2019 - viewtopic.php?t=128830
A chain lubricant needs to:
a. lubricate the chain to minimise friction and resulting energy losses.
b. minimise the metal on metal contact that causes chain stretch
c. prevent corrosion
As I understand it from my memory of reading Brucey's posts on this subject:
- to achieve the best results for the latter two the lubricant needs extreme pressure additives and anti-corrosion additives.
- typical extreme pressure additives would be molybdenum disulphide, graphite or PTFE powder
I think if there were molybdenum disulphide or graphite in the factory applied grease on chains, it would be dark/black, and I suspect that there may be no EP additives in the grease, because its 'dirty' appearance would undermine sales of the expensive gold and silver colour chains. Finish Line Wet Lube however does contain EP additives according to the manufacturer's website, although exactly which additives is not stated. Finish Line Wet was the lubricant used in the second thread linked to above, although note Bucey's comments in that thread about how very important chain cleanliness is.
The question regarding leaving or strippng the factory grease boils down to whether you have something better with which to replace it.
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Re: New chain -with or without grease?
Sheldon B is a pretty heavyweight casting vote in favour of factory lube!
- simonineaston
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- Location: ...at a cricket ground
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
This from a Sram representative:
I'm convinced! Am attempting to find some evidence that KMC chains are treated likewise...For those saying the stuff new chains come with is just a rust protectant, I can’t speak for all manufacturers, but the stuff on SRAM chains is Gleitmo, a high quality industrial chain lube, that is applied by hot dipping in a vat of it at the factory so it penetrates into all the internals of the chain where it is most needed. SRAM themselves recommend you run with the original lubricant for as long as possible before adding your own.
However, if you ride in dry dusty conditions like I do, I would recommend wiping off most of the exterior coating as it does tend to attract dust and quickly turn into a very effective grinding paste!
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
- simonineaston
- Posts: 8003
- Joined: 9 May 2007, 1:06pm
- Location: ...at a cricket ground
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
..and this from a Shimano rep.
The grease that comes on a Shimano chain is applied at the factory to the individual pieces before the chain is assembled. The grease does a better job of reducing friction than aftermarket chain lubes and it lasts longer. The main reason we use liquid chain lube, whether it is one that stays liquid or a dry lube that has a solid lubricant in a liquid carrier (like a PTFE lube) is because we need to get the lube on a part that is not accessible without disassembling the chain. So the best thing to do when installing a new chain is to leave the factory grease on, not apply any other lube, ride until it wears out and then start applying liquid chain lube.
S
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
(on the look out for Armageddon, on board a Brompton nano & ever-changing Moultons)
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
I strip it off with white spirits and cook the chain in my Hot Wax slow cooker (with ptfe and tungsten disulphide additives). I've two chains now at around 5,000km each where the pins of the CC-2 Park Tools chain checker still won't fit into the links (i.e. no wear discernible). This is with a single speed chainline (Gears in a can) and KMC EPT coated E1 chains. Me and the bike weigh in at over 120kg (cos I'm overly endowed with flab)
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
Much as i trust Brucey's expertise on stuff I can't help but think you are right. I mean the factory stuff, while it seems excellent as a preservative/protector just isn't that "slippy2 (technical term) is it?Mick F wrote: ↑16 Jan 2022, 1:54pm The first thing I do with a new chain, is degrease it. Always have done, and will continue to do so.
Gunk, or similar, or white spirit. Clean it so you could eat with it.
Then, lube it with proper chain lubricant bought especially for the use you are going to put the chain to.
Brucey and me would disagree, and have done on the many threads on here regarding this subject.
If the stuff that's on the new chain is so good, why can't you buy it?
I reckon, that chain manufacturers put whatever-they-put-on-it to preserve the chain in its wrapping for storage and for display, and not for YOUR chain in the Real World.
Clean it, then lube it.
Must admit I do tend to run with the factory stuff for a while though out of laziness.
Sweep
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
The correct way to properly clean and re-lubricate a chain was set out by the great Sheldon Brown - just google ShelBroCo.
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
This guy disagrees with keeping the factory lube:
https://youtube.com/channel/UC6dLMug2vajLn1Y-HENe_pw
https://youtube.com/channel/UC6dLMug2vajLn1Y-HENe_pw
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
What's the recipe today folks. I would really like to know. I've been using EP90, occasionally with added molybdenum disulphide. . Run a pair of chains, swapping every 500 miles.freeflow wrote: ↑24 Feb 2022, 10:48am I strip it off with white spirits and cook the chain in my Hot Wax slow cooker (with ptfe and tungsten disulphide additives). I've two chains now at around 5,000km each where the pins of the CC-2 Park Tools chain checker still won't fit into the links (i.e. no wear discernible). This is with a single speed chainline (Gears in a can) and KMC EPT coated E1 chains. Me and the bike weigh in at over 120kg (cos I'm overly endowed with flab)
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
+ 1. Fitted a new KMC chain yesterday; so sticky that the chain was actually sticking to my latex maintenance gloves & hanging off them! Hate the thought of having to clean the stuff off, but realistically, cleaning the chain outer surfaces will be essential
Re: New chain -with or without grease?
Have to post. I didn't clean it off. Big mistake as it's taken a good few hours to clean the side effects of factory grease off the drivetrain and bike