E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Bonefishblues
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by Bonefishblues »

arnsider wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 4:48pm Okay, but the connection between hire company insurance and identification will not be lost on those seeking to force legislation our way.
What legislation and by whom please?
Jdsk
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by Jdsk »

TTBOMK the most recent official publications on the subject are:

"Future of Transport Regulatory Review. Summary of Responses":
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ponses.pdf

"E-scooters: public perceptions":
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... erceptions

Jonathan

PS:
"E-scooter trials: guidance for users":
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-t ... #insurance
Bonefishblues
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by Bonefishblues »

Thanks Jonathan. I was more querying who was seeking to force legislation our way, and in what form - as far as I can see none of those include cyclists in their scope.
Jdsk
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by Jdsk »

Sure, it wasn't meant as a direct response, except to say that I haven't see any proposals!

: - )

Jonathan
mattsccm
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by mattsccm »

Of course another option would be to ban the scooters.Best one in my opinion.
Bonefishblues
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by Bonefishblues »

I think that bird has long flown.
Tangled Metal
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by Tangled Metal »

Tribalism? Dors criticism of users of other transportation types count as tribalism? If so I about to get tribal!

On my commute there's an e scooters user who shows a variety of issues that concerns me. First off where I ride, walk and live the only users of e scooters are wreckers. One guy I see a lot leaves his house by scootering quickly out of his path from the front door, across the pavement (pedestrian footway), between parked cars and into the road. First time I saw that I sensed movement to the left but it still surprised me when I first saw what the movement was as he appeared scooting quickly out from the cars. That's q couple of issues I have with them, rapid acceleration and they're small enough to miss identify so you might not react in the way needed. That's before you consider irresponsible use.

Further on that straight road I saw him reach higher than legal unlicensed e bikes can do. I was about 15 to 18mph and he was leaving me for dust. Cue quick divert onto the pavement on the right side of the road. Followed by a sharp right 50m on down a mixed use footpath down a constrained alley. Between going onto the pavement and this right turn the scooterist was riding quicker than I could cycle my Brompton despite it being a very narrow pavement. Then there's the wall on the corner so you cannot see what's coming up and out of the shared footpath. Dangerous!

This was one e scooterist but in lancaster I've seen many. In fact I would go as far as saying all e scooterists I've seen were Dangerous. But I guess I'm just being tribalism here. Despite the fact I've criticised cyclists, pedestrians, motorists, motorbikers and bus drivers. Out of those the bus drivers, bikers and scooterists are the forms of transport I don't do. The rest I do and still criticise when I see issues. Tribalism against myown transport options perhaps?

Whatever happens in the future there's an issue with e scooter use that does need looking at. In lancaster and Morecambe there's a bit of an issue that the council and a few councillors are beginning to recognise. Partly because of activists raising the issues.

On an aside, some of the people Iwork with from shall we say the rougher areas describe them as being used by drug dealers. Apparently it's very easy to get unlimited e scooters capable of outrunning police cars in built up areas. One former colleague had one good to 40mph, he had done 37mph on it! Crazy device IMHO. Having experienced what 16" wheels and not even exceptional potholes can do to you, in my case broken elbow and 7 weeks off a bike. Those even smaller wheels capable of 40mph on our roads, well Crazy idea IMHO.
Jdsk
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by Jdsk »

mattsccm wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 6:28pm Of course another option would be to ban the scooters.Best one in my opinion.
Why is that, please?

Thanks

Jonathan
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mjr
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by mjr »

Tangled Metal wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 7:28pm used by drug dealers. Apparently it's very easy to get unlimited e scooters capable of outrunning police cars in built up areas. One former colleague had one good to 40mph, he had done 37mph on it! Crazy device IMHO. Having experienced what 16" wheels and not even exceptional potholes can do to you, in my case broken elbow and 7 weeks off a bike. Those even smaller wheels capable of 40mph on our roads, well Crazy idea IMHO.
Yes, the punishment dealt by Darwin to such criminals will probably be far more severe than what the chasing police and courts would issue!

I'm in favour of them being legalised within sensible limits, such as 15 mph powered top speed with an advised maximum of 12 to give people a chance if they have to jump off. I also favour seizure of any found exceeding that in a spot test. I'm not in favour of most aspects of the current farce, not the excessively fast ones being used illegally, not the distraction of police from other crimes and not the restriction of legal scooters to private companies.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by Bmblbzzz »

mjr wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:45am E-scooters can be great for cycling: more riders we can draft behind and their smaller wheels mean they show us where surface defects are more readily, amongst other things.
The best thing about them for us IMO is that they are approximately bicycle sized and speed and move in a similar fashion. Because there are so many of them, drivers get accustomed to driving with that type of vehicle around them. They weaken the hegemony of the automobile.
Bonefishblues
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by Bonefishblues »

Bmblbzzz wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 10:11pm The best thing about them for us IMO is that they are approximately bicycle sized and speed and move in a similar fashion. Because there are so many of them, drivers get accustomed to driving with that type of vehicle around them. They weaken the hegemony of the automobile.
Good and thought-provoking post.
Bmblbzzz
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Tangled Metal wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 7:28pm On an aside, some of the people Iwork with from shall we say the rougher areas describe them as being used by drug dealers. ...
Almost certainly true. What other vehicles do you think might be used by drug dealers?
arnsider
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by arnsider »

The "legislation" I refer to is the need for cyclists to have insurance against third party claims and the inevitable registration identity that goes along with that.
I am certainly not against e scooters and see them as a way of further breaking the entitlement motorists seem to think they have.
I dare say that insurance could well be considered by the responsible cyclist as a prerequisite. anyway.
On road safety, I am sure that the police are boxing very clever here as they do not have sufficient resources to enforce existing traffic laws.
Unfortunately, there are renegades on all forms of wheeled transport, ranging from Boy Racers in hot hatches through idiots on motorcycles to criminals using bicycles to ply their drugs trade. No doubt E scooters will be seen as yet another means of evading capture.
Instant confiscation and heavy fines are the way forward here, but as always, the police just aren't there anymore.
Someone mentioned this 15 mph "limit" they assume is imposed on E-Bikes.
That speed is the cut off for electric assistance and has nothing to do with road speed. As an E-bike user, I am ardently opposed to any attempt to get this threshold raised.
This ridiculous idea comes not from cyclists, but from idiot posers for whom speed is a compensation for their lack of grey matter.
On the issue of driving license necessity for hiring E scooters, could it be that a driving license has more weight as a means of ID?
You only need a provisional, so this alone suggests that actual road sense and competence as a cyclist or other two-wheeled experience is not such a requirement.
We are going to see a whole lot of incompetence from would be scooterists and that is going to rub off on cyclists and in the clamour for some sort of competence, cyclists will be included.
We just cannot rely on the status quo.
arnsider
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by arnsider »

Many thanks to jdsk for the links to two very useful documents.
"Future of Transport Regulatory Review. Summary of Responses": and "E-scooters: public perceptions":
They are both very concise and will no doubt enable me to hone my opinions.
thirdcrank
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by thirdcrank »

Re enforcement of illegal escooters, this is surely low-hanging fruit. In particular, it can be done with minimal knowledge of the law.

Is it an electric scooter? → If so it part of an approved trial? → If not, is it registered, taxed and insured etc? → If not, confiscate and add to social media reports of "clamp down."

Compare that with "cycling on a footpath." Is it "any footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of foot passengers?" ...... er ...... Is it a carriage? → Is it being wilfully driven?
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