E Scooter implications for Cyclists

arnsider
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E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by arnsider »

This issue may have been touched on in other posts as an incidental, but I believe it is an essential one that needs facing head-on.
Under our noses, E scooter legalities have become very controversial and have pretty onerous implications for us cyclists.
To ride an E Scooter legally here on public roads, you need to have a provisional driving license.
You also need to have hired the vehicle from a Bona Fide outfit that includes a form of third party insurance in its charges.
The furore from the usual anti-cycling culprits has been deflected towards scooters because of the huge publicity Towns opting for the schemes have generated.
It is only a matter of time before an accommodation has to be reached.
I do not doubt in my mind that this will mean compulsory third party insurance for cyclists and possibly some form of competence test.
Initially, I reckon E-bike riders will be targeted, but all of us will eventually succumb.
Even now, some scooter hirers operate a coordination test that locks devices should the user be addled by alcohol or drugs.
There are also positive implications from the infrastructure standpoint, in that road surfaces will become safety issues, though if for instance, the highway maintenance authorities have to up their game, the issue of costs will fuel the anti-cycling lobby into clambering for registration revenue.
As the use of high duty earning fuels declines, the treasury will be seeking alternative money streams.
The E-bike community themselves do us no favours while certain factions clamour for the raising of speed/power cut-offs that all bode for more restrictive legislation.
The most “dangerous” trend presently comes from the anomalous situation over the banning the use of private scooters from the roads. This is obviously a sore point and private use will inevitably be sanctioned, but with compulsory insurance. It will only be a matter of time and we will all have to stump up.
DaveReading
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by DaveReading »

arnsider wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 9:13amI do not doubt in my mind that this will mean compulsory third party insurance for cyclists and possibly some form of competence test.
That's an extrapolation too far.

Compulsory insurance would require, as it does with motor vehicles, that the vehicle (i.e. bike in this case) would need to be registered and carry identification that would allow the insurance status to be easily verified.

Can you really see that happening ?
arnsider
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by arnsider »

Yes, I can! Once Jo public gets its heads around e scooter legislation, they will campaign for cyclists to follow suit. No doubt at all!
All these pedestrian scooter accidents, collisions with vehicles, small wheel surface issues will blow up in our faces.
DaveReading
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by DaveReading »

arnsider wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:15am Yes, I can! Once Jo public gets its heads around e scooter legislation, they will campaign for cyclists to follow suit. No doubt at all!
All these pedestrian scooter accidents, collisions with vehicles, small wheel surface issues will blow up in our faces.
Joe Public campaigns for lots of things. Very few of them ever come to pass.
Bonefishblues
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by Bonefishblues »

DaveReading wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:35am
arnsider wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:15am Yes, I can! Once Jo public gets its heads around e scooter legislation, they will campaign for cyclists to follow suit. No doubt at all!
All these pedestrian scooter accidents, collisions with vehicles, small wheel surface issues will blow up in our faces.
Joe Public campaigns for lots of things. Very few of them ever come to pass.
I too think pedal cyclists will be unaffected. Less convinced about e-cyclists if there's an 'oven-ready' solution that could be extended to them, to use a phrase that sticks in the mind...
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mjr
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by mjr »

We will, and must, fight them every step of the way. Maybe that should start with fighting escooter restrictions? There is no "e-scooter community" yet, is there?

E-scooters can be great for cycling: more riders we can draft behind and their smaller wheels mean they show us where surface defects are more readily, amongst other things.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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hemo
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by hemo »

Cycling amongst the general public is very low, bar the sunny family days out maybe. Any compulsory registration and other nonsense will all but kill off the use of cycles in the UK, it simply won't happen as the health benefits of cycling outweigh the silly thinking of the proposal.
Licensing/registration for non conforming ebikes are already covered in law and it is up to the authorities to prove and enforce any incursions of the law.

Eventually all cars/vehicles will pay a levy per mile to drive as away to fund government and electric or what ever less polluting cars can't get away scot free for ever. Up to now no road duty for e cars is to get folks to increase the up take of them but it can't go on for ever.
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Cowsham
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by Cowsham »

arnsider wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 9:13am This issue may have been touched on in other posts as an incidental, but I believe it is an essential one that needs facing head-on.
Under our noses, E scooter legalities have become very controversial and have pretty onerous implications for us cyclists.
To ride an E Scooter legally here on public roads, you need to have a provisional driving license.
You also need to have hired the vehicle from a Bona Fide outfit that includes a form of third party insurance in its charges.
The furore from the usual anti-cycling culprits has been deflected towards scooters because of the huge publicity Towns opting for the schemes have generated.
It is only a matter of time before an accommodation has to be reached.
I do not doubt in my mind that this will mean compulsory third party insurance for cyclists and possibly some form of competence test.
Initially, I reckon E-bike riders will be targeted, but all of us will eventually succumb.
Even now, some scooter hirers operate a coordination test that locks devices should the user be addled by alcohol or drugs.
There are also positive implications from the infrastructure standpoint, in that road surfaces will become safety issues, though if for instance, the highway maintenance authorities have to up their game, the issue of costs will fuel the anti-cycling lobby into clambering for registration revenue.
As the use of high duty earning fuels declines, the treasury will be seeking alternative money streams.
The E-bike community themselves do us no favours while certain factions clamour for the raising of speed/power cut-offs that all bode for more restrictive legislation.
The most “dangerous” trend presently comes from the anomalous situation over the banning the use of private scooters from the roads. This is obviously a sore point and private use will inevitably be sanctioned, but with compulsory insurance. It will only be a matter of time and we will all have to stump up.
+1

We need cycle paths with every road -- that would take us off the roads altogether then no need for road licencing etc.
I am here. Where are you?
Jdsk
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by Jdsk »

Bonefishblues wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:41am
DaveReading wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:35am
arnsider wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:15am Yes, I can! Once Jo public gets its heads around e scooter legislation, they will campaign for cyclists to follow suit. No doubt at all!
All these pedestrian scooter accidents, collisions with vehicles, small wheel surface issues will blow up in our faces.
Joe Public campaigns for lots of things. Very few of them ever come to pass.
I too think pedal cyclists will be unaffected. Less convinced about e-cyclists if there's an 'oven-ready' solution that could be extended to them, to use a phrase that sticks in the mind...
That sounds right to me: eBikes are much more likely to be affected.

Jonathan

PS: We'll probably get some useful information from the trials on the risk of harm to others.
Last edited by Jdsk on 15 Jan 2022, 12:38pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jdsk
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by Jdsk »

hemo wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:52amAny compulsory registration and other nonsense will all but kill off the use of cycles in the UK, it simply won't happen as the health benefits of cycling outweigh the silly thinking of the proposal.
I hope that you're right, and I'd be a lot happier if promoters of walking and cycling would emphasise the benefits to health and the environment.

I'm quite new to these forums and I'm still surprised by the tribalism and aggression towards other road users shown by some posters. There are really good reasons for promoting walking and cycling and that stuff doesn't help the cause.

Jonathan
millimole
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by millimole »


Cowsham wrote:

We need cycle paths with every road -- that would take us off the roads altogether then no need for road licencing etc.
Nice in theory, but consider the implications of that simple statement.
Do you ban cycles (& e-Scooters) from roads with no path?
What about Country lanes? Or historic city centres? Do you ban the cars or the bikes?
Who pays and how?
How is it enforced?
How is cycle sport impacted by this suggestion? (Time trialing, training etc)
It's a battle the CTC fought maybe 80 years ago, we don't want to be repeating history do we?
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Day rides on my Dawes; Going to the shops on a Decathlon Hoprider
arnsider
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by arnsider »

The scenario where an innocent pedestrian is injured by a Scooter and is compensated by the hirers will highlight the anomaly that cyclists are not required to have third party cover. The fact that presently, all bona fide E scooters are registered and have a unique identification will also highlight the contrast with cycles that are not registered. The "mess" of irresponsible scooter parking, the incidence of anti-social use will all filter through to cyclists who will be tarred with the same brush.
One might think that there was a political consensus regarding green issues and health benefits, but not so as the same old prejudice and blinkered outlooks are alive and well in many town halls. Just research countrywide attitudes to E scooters and you'll see a complete split.
The fact that legislation prohibits private use alone should sound a loud warning bell for us.
Looked at in a positive light, UK cycling and British Cycling insurance cover may well be a clarion call to all uninsured cyclists to join us.
thirdcrank
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by thirdcrank »

a clarion call
Is that a subtle hint that other third party cover is available?

Clarion Cycling Club Insurance

https://clarioncc.org/resources/clarion-cover-details/
PH
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Re: E Scooter inplications for Cyclists

Post by PH »

arnsider wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 2:07pm The fact that legislation prohibits private use alone should sound a loud warning bell for us.
What legislation? I don't think there is any directly intended for their use (Other than that brought in to permit trials), rather they fall foul of existing legislation that pre-dates their appearance. If so, it'd be wrong to draw any conclusion from it.
arnsider
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Re: E Scooter implications for Cyclists

Post by arnsider »

Okay, but the connection between hire company insurance and identification will not be lost on those seeking to force legislation our way.
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