Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

General cycling advice ( NOT technical ! )
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freiston
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by freiston »

jb wrote: 25 Jan 2022, 11:09pm There is path through my local park that most definitely had a no cycling sign painted on the tarmac when I was young but this has now all but faded to nothing. Cyclist including myself often use this path as it avoids a busy-ish road. It's very wide with grass on one side so no real danger to walkers from reasonable cyclists. The council has always been very quiet about it.
I suspect the no cycling was originally to stop kids careering round and causing a nuisance rather than to stop folk getting across to town on their bikes. So the authorities are probably taking the attitude of let sleeping dogs lie until there is a problem. This being because as soon as they raise the issue lots of unhbothered walkers will suddenly become bothered and a big to-do will ensue.
It is my understanding that "back in the day", it was pretty much policy to stick no cycling signs up on most pavements/paths that were obviously not footways. The problems of the roads and motor traffic for cyclists generally weren't what they are now (particularly in terms of volume and speed) and the authorities were not switched on to promoting cycling or specifically addressing issues or making safer routes for cyclists. Instead, the authorities were working by default at keeping cyclists off pavements and paths.

In respect of further replies about "careering kids" - I have no experience of jb's local park but generally I don't think that there's much change (beyond the ebb and flow of trends) there - kids will be kids.
Disclaimer: Treat what I say with caution and if possible, wait for someone with more knowledge and experience to contribute. ;)
mattheus
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by mattheus »

Vorpal wrote: 26 Jan 2022, 3:33pm Giving a lone woman a wide pass, even going off the path / on the side, and staying well away is better than saying anything. If saying something is necessary, a simple "excuse me" is enough; more is not needed, and may not be wanted.
Sure, if there is room to do that, great.

But its not those situations that lead to the kind of problems discussed in (most of) this thread i.e.
thirdcrank wrote: 26 Jan 2022, 3:50pm but on the narrow ginnels we have round here, there's no other side to cross to.
I find a little polite vocalization is better than risking distressing collisions or near-misses.
Garry Booth
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by Garry Booth »

We have a cycle path going across the (big) common in our town. It was put in by Sustrans and is part of N1. It has signs saying it is a cyle path but people are welcome to use it - which a lot of people do. They don't have to get their feet muddy taking the dog for a walk in the country.
But some people still object when you come along on your bike! Go figure!
atoz
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by atoz »

Even if you you are legally OK to ride, doesn't mean people will accept it. I now avoid a stretch of canal towpath for this very reason. They kick off if you use a bell or complain if you don't have one. This became a problem when some upmarket residential property was built at the edge of the towpath, and some of the new residents make a big deal of the towpath signs that give priority to pedestrians over cyclists. I posted about this before but some other posters didn't accept what I was saying. IMHO, you have to show a bit of tolerance, but there are some people who just hate cyclists on principle. My guess is that their intolerance isn't just restricted to cyclists though..
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by simonineaston »

As I've noted before, there's a strong thread of dislike for cyclists running right through UK society. As a life-long user of 'single-track vehicles' I got used to it early on, and as I migrated from motor-bikes to pedal-cycles, I naively imagined that the dislike might slacken somewhat - what more benign machine is there than a bicycle, for goodness' sake? As you, dear reader, will already know, I was wrong.
I've been puzzled by this strong feeling of antipathy so many people appear to possess. It's not a class thing - we're as likely to be shouted and gesticulated at by (say) white van man - a plumber or plasterer - as Bertie Snooks in his Volvo or Jaguar. It's not an age thing, either, or gender. It's just hard-baked into the body of British society. The default postion is that cyclists are renegade, take up too much room, don't pay to use the road and are to be vilifed and worse at every opportunity. I don't get it. I don't get it at all.
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atoz
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by atoz »

simonineaston wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 11:08am As I've noted before, there's a strong thread of dislike for cyclists running right through UK society. As a life-long user of 'single-track vehicles' I got used to it early on, and as I migrated from motor-bikes to pedal-cycles, I naively imagined that the dislike might slacken somewhat - what more benign machine is there than a bicycle, for goodness' sake? As you, dear reader, will already know, I was wrong.
I've been puzzled by this strong feeling of antipathy so many people appear to possess. It's not a class thing - we're as likely to be shouted and gesticulated at by (say) white van man - a plumber or plasterer - as Bertie Snooks in his Volvo or Jaguar. It's not an age thing, either, or gender. It's just hard-baked into the body of British society. The default postion is that cyclists are renegade, take up too much room, don't pay to use the road and are to be vilifed and worse at every opportunity. I don't get it. I don't get it at all.
Not just the British. Try Australia. Anti cyclist helmet laws, full on homophobia, and general rude crass behaviour.

Mind you cyclists are not immune from prejudice. Once had a rude comment about my pink Perfetto top at the start of an Audax event. I laughed it off as I didn't want to embarrass the event organiser who was a regular on club runs. Wouldn't have turned the other cheek normally though. I find 2 words, one of which is "off", usually gets the message across adequately.
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foxyrider
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by foxyrider »

simonineaston wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 11:08am As I've noted before, there's a strong thread of dislike for cyclists running right through UK society. As a life-long user of 'single-track vehicles' I got used to it early on, and as I migrated from motor-bikes to pedal-cycles, I naively imagined that the dislike might slacken somewhat - what more benign machine is there than a bicycle, for goodness' sake? As you, dear reader, will already know, I was wrong.
I've been puzzled by this strong feeling of antipathy so many people appear to possess. It's not a class thing - we're as likely to be shouted and gesticulated at by (say) white van man - a plumber or plasterer - as Bertie Snooks in his Volvo or Jaguar. It's not an age thing, either, or gender. It's just hard-baked into the body of British society. The default postion is that cyclists are renegade, take up too much room, don't pay to use the road and are to be vilifed and worse at every opportunity. I don't get it. I don't get it at all.
Whilst i 'don't get it' either, i think most of the abuse does come from a couple of slices of society that, for various reasons, often have a chip on their shoulder.

The first are mostly Boomers, nice house, nice car, good pension, shop at M&S or Waitrose - anything outside of that is to be derided, bicycle riders probably remind them of when they didn't live in such luxury, when they relied on more plebian transport. As cyclists are clearly 'attacking' everything they hold dear they feel its a duty to harass 'us', which might mean hogging shared use paths or as i had yesterday, deliberately blocking my marked route to an ASL. If you met them in the PO or at the pub without a bike presence you'd probably think they were nice people. These are your tacks on the road people.

The second lot are cut from a different cloth, you won't find them on a bike path, they don't walk anywhere, but they will be in a white (other colours are available) van, hooting, shouting and gesticulating, not just at cyclists but other motorists too. Back in the day we'd call them tradesmen - brickies, plumbers, electricians etc and they hate everyone. They'll be the ones with a 10ft wall around the house, the designer clothing, the tacky taste and no name on the van, 'self made', 'worked hard for everything', 'a real diamond', I is everything, there is no us except maybe on the footy terraces. This lot will chase you down if you retaliate, they think they're hard but really they are just bullies.

Oh we get abuse from others, of course we do, some may even be earnt by errant behaviour (usually by someone else) but of the abuse/close passes etc that i get its a ratio of 60% Boomers, 30% tradesmen and 10% kids/bus + taxi drivers/others. Car centric road planning and promotion of car ownership as a sign of ffinancial prowess has done huge damage to our society and infrastructure, just look at the furore over pandemic cycle schemes even when most people were supposed to be staying at home and not driving! Any change in attitude will take many years and a huge change in government policy - oh and a closure of the daily wail :lol:
Convention? what's that then?
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Jdsk
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by Jdsk »

simonineaston wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 11:08am As I've noted before, there's a strong thread of dislike for cyclists running right through UK society. As a life-long user of 'single-track vehicles' I got used to it early on, and as I migrated from motor-bikes to pedal-cycles, I naively imagined that the dislike might slacken somewhat - what more benign machine is there than a bicycle, for goodness' sake? As you, dear reader, will already know, I was wrong.
I've been puzzled by this strong feeling of antipathy so many people appear to possess. It's not a class thing - we're as likely to be shouted and gesticulated at by (say) white van man - a plumber or plasterer - as Bertie Snooks in his Volvo or Jaguar. It's not an age thing, either, or gender. It's just hard-baked into the body of British society. The default postion is that cyclists are renegade, take up too much room, don't pay to use the road and are to be vilifed and worse at every opportunity. I don't get it. I don't get it at all.
What's being described is outgroup hatred: the behaviour is common although the trigger varies.

I don't know any serious studies of the factors that determine who's expressing it, and very few about whether anything the people on the bikes do or wear or look like makes any contribution. Are there any apart from Walker's?

Obviously it's traditional to associate it with various brands and types of powered vehicles but that's wide open to confirmation bias.

And some people on bikes report much more than other people on bikes, and we don't know why.

But there's no reason to despair: in one generation we've seen an enormous improvement in attitudes to two other outgroups. Now, why did that happen... ?

Nil desperandum

Jonathan
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Cowsham
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by Cowsham »

Tarmac gypsies. :lol:
I am here. Where are you?
cycle tramp
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by cycle tramp »

Jdsk wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 1:39pm
And some people on bikes report much more than other people on bikes, and we don't know why.

Nil desperandum

Jonathan
Reading alot of comments on this board, I do wonder if I'm Bilbo Baggins from the Shire. I might have a couple of close passes from time to time, but they're more out of ignorance than malicious intent.

Sometimes I wonder if its because I ride a bike with an upright position in normal clothes, so clearly I'm a person on a bike rather than a cyclist, and because I'm usually carrying stuff, clearly I'm using my bike as transport rather than for a jolly.
Most people use the road network to do stuff and I do wonder if the source of irration is not actually the mode of transport, but that someone or a group of people is using the road for fun (which is getting in the way of people who have to be at some place).

I also wonder than because I'm riding an upright bike, together with my hi-vis jacket i appear sooner on other road users radar than if I hadn't been, allowing other road users to plan ahead (and erhaps wearing a hi-vis jacket may make other road users think that (on some subconscious level) the excuse 'I didn't see him' may not be believed.

Then there's my road spacing. I cycle at the same distance from the kerb that motor scooters usually occupy. Whilst doing so puts me in a more hazardous position (as in, i will get knocked off by someone who is drunk/ under the influence or simply has choosen to sneeze at the wrong time) it means that anyone wishing to overtake has to make a conscious decision to do so.
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tatanab
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by tatanab »

cycle tramp wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 6:01pm Most people use the road network to do stuff and I do wonder if the source of irration is not actually the mode of transport, but that someone or a group of people is using the road for fun (which is getting in the way of people who have to be at some place).
Therein lies the problem of perception. The motorist is always "going somewhere" whereas the cyclist is just "out for a ride".
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by mjr »

simonineaston wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 11:08am. The default postion is that cyclists are renegade, take up too much room, don't pay to use the road and are to be vilifed and worse at every opportunity. I don't get it. I don't get it at all.
However, cyclists are also hated for obeying government instructions to get more exercise, are too small, spend too much money and are to be vilified and worse at every opportunity. Schrödinger's bicycle, or Gear 22?
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by jb »

Way too deep these analyses. Cyclists are hated simply for being the object in the way at the time someone wants to get somewhere at the time they meet the cyclist. You could be on a pogo stick and you'd recieve the same hatred.

In fact agricultural machinery drivers recieve the same hatred but are oblivious because they can usually inflict more damage to the impatient prat than the prat could to them.

We have become a society of selfish people.
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by CathM »

On her first day at work my new head of department was being shown around and introduced to her new staff. Someone mentioned that I cycled to work, and her comment was "Oooh, I hate cyclists - they get in the way!". She didn't say it aggressively, just as a statement of fact, but her remark tainted her for good as far as I was concerned.
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Re: Cyclist-hater refuses to move and says its illegal to cycle on this path??? (PICS INSIDE)

Post by peetee »

jb wrote: 26 Feb 2022, 8:57pm Way too deep these analyses...... [snip]....

We have become a society of selfish people.
Couldn’t have put it better myself. In fact I’d warrant that 95% of all the incidents on our roads could be put down to this.
The older I get the more I’m inclined to act my shoe size, not my age.
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