The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

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Jdsk
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Jdsk »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 1:57pm
reohn2 wrote: 16 Jan 2022, 3:16pm
Jdsk wrote: 16 Jan 2022, 2:02pm Not by me, therefore not universally.
Nor me,and certainly not "universally"
This corrupt institution defends it's official instruction not to use condoms as a means of contraception or protection against AIDS as being against "God's will".
It's been a very long time since that was the case...
Have you got a source for the current position on each of those, please.

Thanks

Jonathan
reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 1:57pm
reohn2 wrote: 16 Jan 2022, 3:16pm
Jdsk wrote: 16 Jan 2022, 2:02pm
Not by me, therefore not universally.

Jonathan
Nor me,and certainly not "universally"
This corrupt institution defends it's official instruction not to use condoms as a means of contraception or protection against AIDS as being against "God's will".
It's been a very long time since that was the case...
Then it needs shouting from the rooftops of every Roman Catholic Institute as a falsehood so that ignorant people will know otherwise it sticks in the minds of the who continue believing it to be a truth!
In the same way the Zionists need to stop stealing Palastinians land and abusing the people who live there and claiming it's theirs by God given right!
Your absolute faith in something else is noted, but that absolute faith has exactly the same basis as any other faith... it's a faith.
I have no "absolute faith" in anything other than paying taxes,and death at some point,hopefully after my (disabled) wife and before my children,remaining grandchildren and greatgrandchildren

To have absolute faith in anything else is foolhardy,to have absolute faith in God(as in supreme being of absolute truth and creator) and any institution that says It's the absolute truth in that context,is IMHO beyond belief!

People can believe whatever they like that's their concern but when they claim it to be an absolute(as most religions do),it's a time to question the basis of that belief and faith.
Faith = belief in something.
Belief needs proof or at least a theory that can't be disproven.
In the case of a belief in God as the author and creator of life and existence of everything,needs more than contradictory books and various religions claiming they,as per the Roman Catholic Church and other Christian churches,along with Islam and Judaism and possibly others,are the ultimate truth just doesn't wash.

EDIT; Religion is a very flawed concept that claims exclusivity,you're either in the kingdom of God or outside of it,those who are in,it's all sweetness and light due to your belief in it.
Those on the outside will suffer greatly simply by not believing.
It's an insurance policy that only pays out at the point of death!
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661-Pete
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by 661-Pete »

reohn2 wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 5:36pm In the same way the Jews need to stop stealing Palastinians land and abusing the people who live there and claiming it's theirs by God given right!
Hmmm... I've long since assumed that the Mods on here aren't really bothered about antisemitism on this forum - so I won't bother to report.

So what's wrong with the above post?

Simple: using the word 'Jews' instead of the word 'Israelis' - or if you insist, 'Zionists'.

See here - and bear in mind please, that this definition was accepted by the Labour Party even in your hero Corbyn's time as leader.

Speaking for myself ... I suppose I'm obliged to. I'm still, ethnically, a Jew. I abhor and detest the atrocious behaviour of many Israelis, in particular the Israeli government - towards the Palestinian people. I've been to Israel myself, but that was in the 1960s. I'd never set foot there today. I despair of there ever being a solution - but maybe in the distant future...

Even in my teens I felt uneasy about justifying the creation of Israel per se. And that was before I learnt things about the Naqba.

Enough said. Except .... please get the spelling of 'Palestinian' right!

Mods note: I have edited the previous post; it now says 'Zionists'. Also, it simply is not true that the mods here ( well me, anyway ) are not bothered by antisemitism. I am quite a lot bothered by antisemitism or anti anything that people are born with and cannot change. I am perfectly happy for anyone to be as negative as they like about any organised religion, political party, demonstration or cycle maintenance manual.
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al_yrpal
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by al_yrpal »

Attended a friends funeral today. All about God and very little about him. Made me very sad, he was a great bloke.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

To the forum.
Please accept my sincere apology for claiming it is Jews who are stealing Palastinian land,it is of course Zionists and the State of Israel,post has been amended.
I am not antisemitic.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone.

EDIT,just add,Pete I don't have "heroes" though I do believe Corbyn would've made a better and more ethical PM and formed a far better government than the present excuse!
PS sorry about the spoilings
Last edited by reohn2 on 18 Jan 2022, 10:12am, edited 2 times in total.
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pwa
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by pwa »

Psamathe wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 11:13am
pwa wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 4:38am ...He still gets some things wrong though,....
I thought that was impossible on matters of faith or morals? Papal infallibility. So when he says wrong to have no or one child or wrong to have a pet then those are issues or morals so papal infallibility should apply and he must be right.

Ian
You are tying yourself in knots that modern Catholics don't bother with. The Papal infalliblity thing is something belonging more to the distant past than the present, and I doubt the current Pope would claim it. And even if he did, most UK Catholics wouldn't accept it. I have heard reports that on matters like clergy marrying, the current Pope would favour a more relaxed approach but he is held back by more conservative forces within the Vatican. The Pope is not all powerful within Catholicism, and even if he did have a free hand with edicts, modern Catholics pick and choose what to accept from him.
pwa
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by pwa »

661-Pete wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 7:16pm
reohn2 wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 5:36pm In the same way the Jews need to stop stealing Palastinians land and abusing the people who live there and claiming it's theirs by God given right!
Hmmm... I've long since assumed that the Mods on here aren't really bothered about antisemitism on this forum - so I won't bother to report.

So what's wrong with the above post?

Simple: using the word 'Jews' instead of the word 'Israelis' - or if you insist, 'Zionists'.

See here - and bear in mind please, that this definition was accepted by the Labour Party even in your hero Corbyn's time as leader.

Speaking for myself ... I suppose I'm obliged to. I'm still, ethnically, a Jew. I abhor and detest the atrocious behaviour of many Israelis, in particular the Israeli government - towards the Palestinian people. I've been to Israel myself, but that was in the 1960s. I'd never set foot there today. I despair of there ever being a solution - but maybe in the distant future...

Even in my teens I felt uneasy about justifying the creation of Israel per se. And that was before I learnt things about the Naqba.

Enough said. Except .... please get the spelling of 'Palestinian' right!

Mods note: I have edited the previous post; it now says 'Zionists'. Also, it simply is not true that the mods here ( well me, anyway ) are not bothered by antisemitism. I am quite a lot bothered by antisemitism or anti anything that people are born with and cannot change. I am perfectly happy for anyone to be as negative as they like about any organised religion, political party, demonstration or cycle maintenance manual.
Perhaps we can agree that there is a problem in Israel / the Occupied Territories (or whatever we want to call that area) with some Israeli Jews claiming land that has long been in the possession of non-Jews, and using scriptures as justification. And we can, I hope, agree that this is not the doing of all Israeli Jews (some oppose it) and does not reflect on Jews elsewhere. It is a failing created by a sector of Israeli Jewish society and tolerated / supported by an Israeli government that constantly needs the support of that part of Israeli society. We don't want to appear to be anti-Semitic simply through unwise choice of words. I am not aware of anyone posting here who is actually anti-Semitic, so I think we can put that one to bed.

Back to the Pope, and I think he is wrong about pets, or dogs in particular. He just doesn't get it. For many people a dog is companionship both at home and on walks. And there is nothing wrong with that. My mother is in her late eighties and her face lights up when we take our whippet to visit her. The dog makes a real fuss of her, and they snuggle up together on a settee, glad of each other's company. If the Pope doesn't understand that, he is missing out on one of the joys of life.
Ben@Forest
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Ben@Forest »

pwa wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 5:46am Perhaps we can agree that there is a problem in Israel / the Occupied Territories (or whatever we want to call that area) with some Israeli Jews claiming land that has long been in the possession of non-Jews, and using scriptures as justification. And we can, I hope, agree that this is not the doing of all Israeli Jews (some oppose it) and does not reflect on Jews elsewhere. It is a failing created by a sector of Israeli Jewish society and tolerated / supported by an Israeli government that constantly needs the support of that part of Israeli society. We don't want to appear to be anti-Semitic simply through unwise choice of words. I am not aware of anyone posting here who is actually anti-Semitic, so I think we can put that one to bed.
Your analysis misses out that part of the reason for Israel's stance or the stance of some (but not all) of its people is of course the forces arraigned against it; who have no compunction in declaring they want to wipe Israel off the map.

This is not just Hamas or some (but not all) Palestinian politicians, but the leaders of countries like Iran; and it's only been recently that other Muslim countries have ceased chanting this mantra. Do l agree with Israel on many of its actions - no. Are they sometimes preciptated by external actors - yes.
Tangled Metal
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Tangled Metal »

What's the chief rabbi's views on pet ownership and single child families? Is his view as flawed as the pope's?
pwa
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by pwa »

Ben@Forest wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 7:07am
pwa wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 5:46am Perhaps we can agree that there is a problem in Israel / the Occupied Territories (or whatever we want to call that area) with some Israeli Jews claiming land that has long been in the possession of non-Jews, and using scriptures as justification. And we can, I hope, agree that this is not the doing of all Israeli Jews (some oppose it) and does not reflect on Jews elsewhere. It is a failing created by a sector of Israeli Jewish society and tolerated / supported by an Israeli government that constantly needs the support of that part of Israeli society. We don't want to appear to be anti-Semitic simply through unwise choice of words. I am not aware of anyone posting here who is actually anti-Semitic, so I think we can put that one to bed.
Your analysis misses out that part of the reason for Israel's stance or the stance of some (but not all) of its people is of course the forces arraigned against it; who have no compunction in declaring they want to wipe Israel off the map.

This is not just Hamas or some (but not all) Palestinian politicians, but the leaders of countries like Iran; and it's only been recently that other Muslim countries have ceased chanting this mantra. Do l agree with Israel on many of its actions - no. Are they sometimes preciptated by external actors - yes.
There are unhelpful forces on all sides of this.
pwa
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by pwa »

I'd be interested to hear what the Pope feels about the world being overpopulated, and how we should address that. Every single child family offsets a six child family.
sjs
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by sjs »

Psamathe wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 11:13am
pwa wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 4:38am ...He still gets some things wrong though,....
I thought that was impossible on matters of faith or morals? Papal infallibility. So when he says wrong to have no or one child or wrong to have a pet then those are issues or morals so papal infallibility should apply and he must be right.

Ian
I'm no expert but believe infallibility is a lot more limited than that. Infallible only when he says he is, or when everyone agrees he is, or something.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Jdsk wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 2:10pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 1:57pm
reohn2 wrote: 16 Jan 2022, 3:16pm
Nor me,and certainly not "universally"
This corrupt institution defends it's official instruction not to use condoms as a means of contraception or protection against AIDS as being against "God's will".
It's been a very long time since that was the case...
Have you got a source for the current position on each of those, please.

Thanks

Jonathan
Pope Francis has been quite clear, it was Benedict that was the last one to condemn their use.

It’s not a “condoms are all good” but that the AIDS crisis, for it is still a crisis, in Africa requires a more pragmatic approach.

The objection is to the promotion of promiscuity which is implied. Not a position that overrides the necessity of action against the health crisis - but still a concern.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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al_yrpal
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by al_yrpal »

All this stuff shows what tosh it all is. No God setting down the rules, just ordinary human beings making shape shifting rules and writing them up in old books which must be followed. Some of these books urging violent retribution on non followers! Absolutely barmy IMO. People laugh at Hippies with their crystals and the Henge, religions are actually in the same category.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Jdsk
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Jdsk »

[XAP]Bob wrote: 18 Jan 2022, 8:58am
Jdsk wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 2:10pm
[XAP]Bob wrote: 17 Jan 2022, 1:57pm It's been a very long time since that was the case...
Have you got a source for the current position on each of those, please.
Pope Francis has been quite clear, it was Benedict that was the last one to condemn their use.

It’s not a “condoms are all good” but that the AIDS crisis, for it is still a crisis, in Africa requires a more pragmatic approach.

The objection is to the promotion of promiscuity which is implied. Not a position that overrides the necessity of action against the health crisis - but still a concern.
Thanks.

But it was the position of the Catholic Church that I was questioning.

Benedict has made some interesting comments, but I think that they are far from clear. Unless I've missed something...

Jonathan
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