The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

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reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 9:31am I think " aethiests dont necessarily treat those around them with warmth, understanding, and respect." is a better description. That mantra is the only 'add on' humanists subscribe to...

This list of noteable Humanists is interesting. It includes people like Lincoln, Darwin and Einstein.
https://www.humanistsociety.net/content ... -humanists

Add to that Dr Cox, Stephen Fry , Joan Bakewell in a more contemporary local sense.

Alice Roberts is the UK President.

Al
But that is a society with tenets some of which you don't believe in,in which case you aren't part of as you aren't a member.

I understand you consider yourself a humanist,I've no argument with that.
My argument is that you consider humanism to be higher in a heirachical sense than atheism because :- " aethiests dont necessarily treat those around them with warmth, understanding, and respect".
Do all humanists adhere and subscribe to that tenet of the Humanist society?
And if they don't are they not considered humanists?
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reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

thirdcrank wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 9:22am AIUI, all Humanists are atheists. Not all atheists are Humanists.
Are all humanists Humanists?
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al_yrpal
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by al_yrpal »

How long is a piece of string? Do all folk who subscribe to any religion follow its tenants? I dont know? Neither do you. Catholics have a get out clause, confession... :lol: Theres a religious doctrine that expects us, as flawed adherants to sin and be forgiven by praying! How does that make any sense.

No one is perfect, no religion or belief like Humanism is perfect. Remember that when you are having one of your daily rants :lol:

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
thirdcrank
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by thirdcrank »

What I meant is that anybody who does not believe in a god or gods is an atheist. The word means "no god." Humanism afaik is one school of thought (?) that gives some form to atheism, in particular the importance of altruism for its own sake ie true altruism, rather than a way of getting through the eye of a needle: charity as it's sometimes known.
reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 10:41am How long is a piece of string? Do all folk who subscribe to any religion follow its tenants? I dont know? Neither do you. Catholics have a get out clause, confession... :lol: Theres a religious doctrine that expects us, as flawed adherants to sin and be forgiven by praying! How does that make any sense.

No one is perfect, no religion or belief like Humanism is perfect. Remember that when you are having one of your daily rants
:lol:

Al
Not very warm,understanding or respectful? :wink:
Fell at the first fence.

My point is one of your heirachical system of putting humanism above aetheism you just proved that you aren't and it isn't.
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reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

thirdcrank wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 10:43am What I meant is that anybody who does not believe in a god or gods is an atheist. The word means "no god." Humanism afaik is one school of thought (?) that gives some form to atheism, in particular the importance of altruism for its own sake ie true altruism, rather than a way of getting through the eye of a needle: charity as it's sometimes known.
Agreed!
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al_yrpal
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by al_yrpal »

I believe you have lost a lot of people and thats no reflection on me. A bit of self reflection is perhaps whats needed. I am not a paid up member of the Humanists as I explained with the reason why.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
Tangled Metal
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Tangled Metal »

Isn't "warmth, understanding and respect" a mantra of sorts? Humanism is a belief, Al said so upthread. He also said it isn't a belief I think. So confusing.

I seem to recall Al being less than warm, understanding and respectful of people who do believe in a religion (that's not humanism). It seems that whatever belief system humans aspire to follow we always fail to achieve.

We as a species suck at following the rules of our own created beliefs. Perhaps the only true adherents of a belief system are those who simply do not believe in something. Atheists are higher up in achieving a belief system than humanists and followers of all major religions!
reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 11:49am I believe you have lost a lot of people and thats no reflection on me. A bit of self reflection is perhaps whats needed.
Al
If that post is aimed at me then :lol:
There you go again posting insults,it was never my intention to gain anyone for a start.I do plenty of "self reflection" thank you and don't need your unsolicited advise on the matter thanks very much.

All I'm doing is asking questions with a willingness to debate the subject matter,in this case humanism,it was you who began throwing the insults around,not me don't forget,your "warmth,understanding and respect" went out the window PDQ.
And it isn't the first time when things don't go your way,it's an open forum expect to be challenged when you make statements that someone else thinks needs clarifying.
You are one of only two people on this forum who have insulted me personally,both of whom I've treated with respect,tried to understand and shown a little warmth to albit lukewarm on occasion.
I am not a paid up member of the Humanists as I explained with the reason why.
Why you haven't joined the Humanist Society is your business which you have shared thanks.

NOTE:-I've edited the last sentence due a misreading of the quoted post
Last edited by reohn2 on 19 Jan 2022, 5:44pm, edited 2 times in total.
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reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

Tangled Metal wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 2:17pm Isn't "warmth, understanding and respect" a mantra of sorts? Humanism is a belief, Al said so upthread. He also said it isn't a belief I think. So confusing.

I seem to recall Al being less than warm, understanding and respectful of people who do believe in a religion (that's not humanism). It seems that whatever belief system humans aspire to follow we always fail to achieve.

We as a species suck at following the rules of our own created beliefs. Perhaps the only true adherents of a belief system are those who simply do not believe in something.
I think you're right on that.
Atheists are higher up in achieving a belief system than humanists and followers of all major religions!
Is aetheism a belief system?
Is there any kind of heirarchy involved it?
It seems to me it's a none belief of a system if anything.
The word aethism means a disbelief in a God or gods nothing more.
From the web:- An atheist denies the existence of God. As it is frequently said, atheists believe that it is false that God exists, or that God's existence is a speculative hypothesis of an extremely low order of probability.
That's all,there's no system involved.
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Jdsk
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Jdsk »

reohn2 wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 5:38pmIs aetheism a belief system?
No, it isn't. Absence of belief isn't a type of belief.

But we're probably about to need to separate believe that from believe in.

Jonathan
reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

Jdsk wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 5:50pm
reohn2 wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 5:38pmIs aetheism a belief system?
No, it isn't. Absence of belief isn't a type of belief.
Agreed
But we're probably about to need to separate believe that from believe in.

Jonathan
Sorry,I maybe being a bit thick,you've lost me,could you explain? :?
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Jdsk
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Jdsk »

reohn2 wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 5:57pm
Jdsk wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 5:50pm But we're probably about to need to separate believe that from believe in.
Sorry,I maybe being a bit thick,you've lost me,could you explain? :?
Believe that is common parlance with (among other things) statements that can be supported by evidence, eg:

I believe that protons are bigger than electrons (... and I'll try to explain why if needed).

Believe in has lots of meanings, including eg:

I believe in fairies (... and nothing you say will affect that because IT"S WHAT I BELIEVE!).

The distinction is *nowhere near absolute, but it's worth being aware of when reading what others write. It might even have been useful upthread.

Jonathan

* Cue counterexamples. : - )
reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

Jdsk wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 6:04pm
reohn2 wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 5:57pm
Jdsk wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 5:50pm But we're probably about to need to separate believe that from believe in.
Sorry,I maybe being a bit thick,you've lost me,could you explain? :?
Believe that is common parlance with (among other things) statements that can be supported by evidence, eg:

I believe that protons are bigger than electrons (... and I'll try to explain why if needed).

Believe in has lots of meanings, including eg:

I believe in fairies (... and nothing you say will affect that because IT"S WHAT I BELIEVE!).

The distinction is *nowhere near absolute, but it's worth being aware of when reading what others write. It might even have been useful upthread.

Jonathan

* Cue counterexamples. : - )
Thanks.
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al_yrpal
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by al_yrpal »

Tangled Metal wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 2:17pm Isn't "warmth, understanding and respect" a mantra of sorts? Humanism is a belief, Al said so upthread. He also said it isn't a belief I think. So confusing.

I seem to recall Al being less than warm, understanding and respectful of people who do believe in a religion (that's not humanism). It seems that whatever belief system humans aspire to follow we always fail to achieve.

We as a species suck at following the rules of our own created beliefs. Perhaps the only true adherents of a belief system are those who simply do not believe in something. Atheists are higher up in achieving a belief system than humanists and followers of all major religions!
No, what I said is that I wont join the Humanists because I dont approve of their actions and attitudes towards religious folk. I have many close Christian friends who I like and respect.
I am not a member of the Humanists but I do think they have many things that I like and its a thinking and kind step on from simple pure aethism.

Al
Reuse, recycle, thus do your bit to save the planet.... Get stuff at auctions, Dump, Charity Shops, Facebook Marketplace, Ebay, Car Boots. Choose an Old House, and a Banger ..... And cycle as often as you can......
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