The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

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reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

al_yrpal wrote: 19 Jan 2022, 7:46pm .....I am not a member of the Humanists but I do think they have many things that I like and its a thinking and kind step on from simple pure aethism.

Al
What is "simple pure aetheism"?
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

It's a simple and pure question,what say you Al?
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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ncutler
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by ncutler »

One of the difficulties inherant in atheism is how to answer the question: "well, what do you believe in then ...."

I'm rather fond of the two tenets of the Hopi:

"Try to understand things"

and

"Don't go around hurting people"
No pasaran
Psamathe
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by Psamathe »

ncutler wrote: 20 Jan 2022, 7:30pm One of the difficulties inherant in atheism is how to answer the question: "well, what do you believe in then ...."

I'm rather fond of the two tenets of the Hopi:

"Try to understand things"

and

"Don't go around hurting people"
(off-topic) which reminds me of the two best films ever made: Koyaanisqatsi and Powaqqatsi (NOT including the 3rd of the trilogy). If anybody has not seen them/either then they are an absolute must (preferably with good sound quality and adequate volume and time without distractions).

Ian
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

ncutler wrote: 20 Jan 2022, 7:30pm One of the difficulties inherant in atheism is how to answer the question: "well, what do you believe in then ...."
As if you simply have to believe in something.
I've never been asked that question.

I'm rather fond of the two tenets of the Hopi:

"Try to understand things"

and

"Don't go around hurting people"
I can't argue with those tenets,though some people are determined to be hurt and though you try to understand why,sometimes it leads to a cul-de-sac :?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
pwa
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by pwa »

Perhaps being a bit pedantic, I must point out that it is possible to be atheist but still believe in life after death. Buddhism comes in many forms, some having supernatural spirits or gods, but the simplest form of Buddhism doesn't have anything you might call God. The person of the Buddha is worshipped as an enlightened being who was just a struggling human and transcended that, as we all might if we direct ourselves that way. But until we do that we are doomed to perpetual rebirth to keep having another go. With no God involved. Atheist = without a god.
reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

pwa wrote: 21 Jan 2022, 6:41am Perhaps being a bit pedantic, I must point out that it is possible to be atheist but still believe in life after death. Buddhism comes in many forms, some having supernatural spirits or gods, but the simplest form of Buddhism doesn't have anything you might call God. The person of the Buddha is worshipped as an enlightened being who was just a struggling human and transcended that, as we all might if we direct ourselves that way. But until we do that we are doomed to perpetual rebirth to keep having another go. With no God involved. Atheist = without a god.
Reinicarnation is a system that's based on the progression of the spirit or soul as after death there's no body/vehicle,so you assume a spirit form into another body.
If that's the case can it not also include regression for sins carried commited in this life and if so then what?

Also if the memory of this life is destroyed/wiped clean at death how does the spirit/soul know how to progress without a record of the previous life(s)?

There are certain teachings that say a very sinful human at death might regress to animal form,so taking reincarnation to it's logical conclusion anythings possible both regressive or progressive.

I'm of the opinion the Buddha's message like that of Jesus and others have become corrupted to a greater or lesser extent by man,sometimes with the best intentions but mostly by those seeking power and control.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
pwa
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by pwa »

reohn2 wrote: 21 Jan 2022, 8:55am
pwa wrote: 21 Jan 2022, 6:41am Perhaps being a bit pedantic, I must point out that it is possible to be atheist but still believe in life after death. Buddhism comes in many forms, some having supernatural spirits or gods, but the simplest form of Buddhism doesn't have anything you might call God. The person of the Buddha is worshipped as an enlightened being who was just a struggling human and transcended that, as we all might if we direct ourselves that way. But until we do that we are doomed to perpetual rebirth to keep having another go. With no God involved. Atheist = without a god.
Reinicarnation is a system that's based on the progression of the spirit or soul as after death there's no body/vehicle,so you assume a spirit form into another body.
If that's the case can it not also include regression for sins carried commited in this life and if so then what?

Also if the memory of this life is destroyed/wiped clean at death how does the spirit/soul know how to progress without a record of the previous life(s)?

There are certain teachings that say a very sinful human at death might regress to animal form,so taking reincarnation to it's logical conclusion anythings possible both regressive or progressive.

I'm of the opinion the Buddha's message like that of Jesus and others have become corrupted to a greater or lesser extent by man,sometimes with the best intentions but mostly by those seeking power and control.
I don't personally believe in reincarnation, which is why I am not a Buddhist. But my main point is simply that Buddhism, in its most stripped down form, is atheistic. It has no supreme all-powerful God. Unless one considers all the life in the Universe to be God, with us as part of it. So you could be an atheist and have a religion at the same time. If you were so minded.
reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

pwa wrote: 21 Jan 2022, 11:09am I don't personally believe in reincarnation, which is why I am not a Buddhist.
I wasn't assuming aanything just musing as to why I can't see it neing a truth.
I don't think you have to believe in reincarnation to be a Buddhist,AIUI you can use the bits of it that help you in your life,you can be a Buddhist and a Christian without conflict.
But my main point is simply that Buddhism, in its most stripped down form, is atheistic. It has no supreme all-powerful God. Unless one considers all the life in the Universe to be God, with us as part of it. So you could be an atheist and have a religion at the same time. If you were so minded.
In some Christian circles it's disaprovingly known as Universalism.
IMHumbleO,If God exists It's the all of everything and the space inbetween.Though life after death and a spritual realm of the soul,I can't believe in.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
pwa
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by pwa »

reohn2 wrote: 21 Jan 2022, 11:21pm
pwa wrote: 21 Jan 2022, 11:09am I don't personally believe in reincarnation, which is why I am not a Buddhist.
I wasn't assuming aanything just musing as to why I can't see it neing a truth.
I don't think you have to believe in reincarnation to be a Buddhist,AIUI you can use the bits of it that help you in your life,you can be a Buddhist and a Christian without conflict.
But my main point is simply that Buddhism, in its most stripped down form, is atheistic. It has no supreme all-powerful God. Unless one considers all the life in the Universe to be God, with us as part of it. So you could be an atheist and have a religion at the same time. If you were so minded.
In some Christian circles it's disaprovingly known as Universalism.
IMHumbleO,If God exists It's the all of everything and the space inbetween.Though life after death and a spritual realm of the soul,I can't believe in.
I think there is a possibility of us actually existing in a universe created by thought, which is interesting, full of possibilities, and impossible to disprove. But on the whole I think we are probably just short term flashes of light created by the Universe, and everything that we are dissipates into dust when we die. There's a cheery thought to start the day! :lol:
reohn2
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Re: The Pope: Children pets and the Tour de France

Post by reohn2 »

pwa wrote: 22 Jan 2022, 8:25am I think there is a possibility of us actually existing in a universe created by thought, which is interesting, full of possibilities, and impossible to disprove. But on the whole I think we are probably just short term flashes of light created by the Universe, and everything that we are dissipates into dust when we die. There's a cheery thought to start the day! :lol:
Well thought isn't unique in the universe,neither is evolution.
It's the,what comes after,people find hard to contemplate and reconcile to themslves,so they try not to think about it coz it hurts their heads too much.
Of course there are those who think they've got it all sorted in one way or another,according to the doctine and dogma they believe in but ultimately they've no idea really,it's not a such bad idea to teach people that there's an afterlife better than this one,but it's not a truthful one,and it's been peddled down the centuries to keep some people rich whilst keeping most people poor.
IMHO,in the absence of any kind of proof,the lights just go out and I was just another mammal at the end of it's life span who ceased to exist.

As for this life,we have free choice to live life positively or negatively.
Al's adage to treat everyone we come across with respect,understanding and warmth,is a positive approach to life but neverthless a high bar to jump over consistently.

Edited for clarity.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
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