Have you got a source for the current position on each of those, please.[XAP]Bob wrote: ↑17 Jan 2022, 1:57pmIt's been a very long time since that was the case...
Thanks
Jonathan
Have you got a source for the current position on each of those, please.[XAP]Bob wrote: ↑17 Jan 2022, 1:57pmIt's been a very long time since that was the case...
Then it needs shouting from the rooftops of every Roman Catholic Institute as a falsehood so that ignorant people will know otherwise it sticks in the minds of the who continue believing it to be a truth![XAP]Bob wrote: ↑17 Jan 2022, 1:57pmIt's been a very long time since that was the case...
I have no "absolute faith" in anything other than paying taxes,and death at some point,hopefully after my (disabled) wife and before my children,remaining grandchildren and greatgrandchildrenYour absolute faith in something else is noted, but that absolute faith has exactly the same basis as any other faith... it's a faith.
Hmmm... I've long since assumed that the Mods on here aren't really bothered about antisemitism on this forum - so I won't bother to report.
You are tying yourself in knots that modern Catholics don't bother with. The Papal infalliblity thing is something belonging more to the distant past than the present, and I doubt the current Pope would claim it. And even if he did, most UK Catholics wouldn't accept it. I have heard reports that on matters like clergy marrying, the current Pope would favour a more relaxed approach but he is held back by more conservative forces within the Vatican. The Pope is not all powerful within Catholicism, and even if he did have a free hand with edicts, modern Catholics pick and choose what to accept from him.
Perhaps we can agree that there is a problem in Israel / the Occupied Territories (or whatever we want to call that area) with some Israeli Jews claiming land that has long been in the possession of non-Jews, and using scriptures as justification. And we can, I hope, agree that this is not the doing of all Israeli Jews (some oppose it) and does not reflect on Jews elsewhere. It is a failing created by a sector of Israeli Jewish society and tolerated / supported by an Israeli government that constantly needs the support of that part of Israeli society. We don't want to appear to be anti-Semitic simply through unwise choice of words. I am not aware of anyone posting here who is actually anti-Semitic, so I think we can put that one to bed.661-Pete wrote: ↑17 Jan 2022, 7:16pmHmmm... I've long since assumed that the Mods on here aren't really bothered about antisemitism on this forum - so I won't bother to report.
So what's wrong with the above post?
Simple: using the word 'Jews' instead of the word 'Israelis' - or if you insist, 'Zionists'.
See here - and bear in mind please, that this definition was accepted by the Labour Party even in your hero Corbyn's time as leader.
Speaking for myself ... I suppose I'm obliged to. I'm still, ethnically, a Jew. I abhor and detest the atrocious behaviour of many Israelis, in particular the Israeli government - towards the Palestinian people. I've been to Israel myself, but that was in the 1960s. I'd never set foot there today. I despair of there ever being a solution - but maybe in the distant future...
Even in my teens I felt uneasy about justifying the creation of Israel per se. And that was before I learnt things about the Naqba.
Enough said. Except .... please get the spelling of 'Palestinian' right!
Mods note: I have edited the previous post; it now says 'Zionists'. Also, it simply is not true that the mods here ( well me, anyway ) are not bothered by antisemitism. I am quite a lot bothered by antisemitism or anti anything that people are born with and cannot change. I am perfectly happy for anyone to be as negative as they like about any organised religion, political party, demonstration or cycle maintenance manual.
Your analysis misses out that part of the reason for Israel's stance or the stance of some (but not all) of its people is of course the forces arraigned against it; who have no compunction in declaring they want to wipe Israel off the map.pwa wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 5:46am Perhaps we can agree that there is a problem in Israel / the Occupied Territories (or whatever we want to call that area) with some Israeli Jews claiming land that has long been in the possession of non-Jews, and using scriptures as justification. And we can, I hope, agree that this is not the doing of all Israeli Jews (some oppose it) and does not reflect on Jews elsewhere. It is a failing created by a sector of Israeli Jewish society and tolerated / supported by an Israeli government that constantly needs the support of that part of Israeli society. We don't want to appear to be anti-Semitic simply through unwise choice of words. I am not aware of anyone posting here who is actually anti-Semitic, so I think we can put that one to bed.
There are unhelpful forces on all sides of this.Ben@Forest wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 7:07amYour analysis misses out that part of the reason for Israel's stance or the stance of some (but not all) of its people is of course the forces arraigned against it; who have no compunction in declaring they want to wipe Israel off the map.pwa wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 5:46am Perhaps we can agree that there is a problem in Israel / the Occupied Territories (or whatever we want to call that area) with some Israeli Jews claiming land that has long been in the possession of non-Jews, and using scriptures as justification. And we can, I hope, agree that this is not the doing of all Israeli Jews (some oppose it) and does not reflect on Jews elsewhere. It is a failing created by a sector of Israeli Jewish society and tolerated / supported by an Israeli government that constantly needs the support of that part of Israeli society. We don't want to appear to be anti-Semitic simply through unwise choice of words. I am not aware of anyone posting here who is actually anti-Semitic, so I think we can put that one to bed.
This is not just Hamas or some (but not all) Palestinian politicians, but the leaders of countries like Iran; and it's only been recently that other Muslim countries have ceased chanting this mantra. Do l agree with Israel on many of its actions - no. Are they sometimes preciptated by external actors - yes.
I'm no expert but believe infallibility is a lot more limited than that. Infallible only when he says he is, or when everyone agrees he is, or something.
Pope Francis has been quite clear, it was Benedict that was the last one to condemn their use.
Thanks.[XAP]Bob wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 8:58amPope Francis has been quite clear, it was Benedict that was the last one to condemn their use.
It’s not a “condoms are all good” but that the AIDS crisis, for it is still a crisis, in Africa requires a more pragmatic approach.
The objection is to the promotion of promiscuity which is implied. Not a position that overrides the necessity of action against the health crisis - but still a concern.